canon 7D Vs 5d MkII resolution overall quality

I

IvanF

Well-known member
Hi,
i just shoot a commercial with 7d and nikon pimes lens.
After a day of shooting I'm very disappointed for the quality, expecially wiht the noise in the shadow.
All the shoot at 400 iso with a lot ( much) noise and no details.
poor resolution.
After that I did a test side by side with Canon 5d MkII.
Same light, same Iso, same lens.
The 5D mkII isn't a Canon Xha1 or Sony EX 1 (3) for the resolution, but seem better, much better than 7D.
resolution, noise, dynamic, are better in 5 d MkII.
Is only my impression or is the true?

thanks.
 
For me those dslr's are SD cameras, i mean you can not deliver a project in any HD format, it will look very poor.I was also very disappointed the fisrt time i shot with 7D, but the more you shoot the more your footage gets better, but if you spend that efford with any kind of hig-end camcorder you'll do better than any dslr:) Thats what i think..
 
IvanF said:
Hi,
i just shoot a commercial with 7d and nikon pimes lens.
After a day of shooting I'm very disappointed for the quality, expecially wiht the noise in the shadow.
All the shoot at 400 iso with a lot ( much) noise and no details.
poor resolution.
After that I did a test side by side with Canon 5d MkII.
Same light, same Iso, same lens.
The 5D mkII isn't a Canon Xha1 or Sony EX 1 (3) for the resolution, but seem better, much better than 7D.
resolution, noise, dynamic, are better in 5 d MkII.
Is only my impression or is the true?

thanks.
Click to expand...
Download and take a look at other 7D productions on Vimeo. I don't know about resolving power vs the 5Dll but they both seem to produce the same image besides the 5Dll having a little cleaner image at the same ISO. Also, there are some native ISOs on the 7D that are much cleaner than others. You'll have to look those up but i don't think 400 was one of them.
 
Of course the 5D is superior to the 7D- it's also more expensive. You get what you pay for and what you pay for in this case is a bigger chip. That means more control over depth of field and great low light sensitivity. And incidentally- "noise" at 400 ISO is mostly underexposure. I.e. you need to light your shots better.

Noah
 
Lumiere said:
For me those dslr's are SD cameras, i mean you can not deliver a project in any HD format, it will look very poor.I was also very disappointed the fisrt time i shot with 7D, but the more you shoot the more your footage gets better, but if you spend that efford with any kind of hig-end camcorder you'll do better than any dslr:) Thats what i think..
Click to expand...


Everyone is entitled to there opinion but I think telling someone that DSLR HD content will look very poor is just not true. I don't know what kind of commercial the OP was producing and maybe in that situation a Sony ex-1 would have been more appropriate. But in so many situations because of the combination of portability, cost and flexibility a T2i, 7D or 5D is a better option. Narrative film making, music videos, Documentaries, Nature films, and most importantly a tool to learn film making, are excellent examples were the DSLR can shine.

Roy
 
Yeah I would totally beg to differ that you can't deliver in HD with the 5D- lots of stuff on TV especially docs and music videos is there already.

Noah
 
I had another post regarding digital noise and I'm wondering if our best people here have put enough thought into what noise is and why it occurs (and what we can do to prevent it, or at least tone it down, besides flooding the chip with more light -- which is not always the desired lighting effect in a given scene).

I'm shooting for black and white right now so I'm dealing with a much narrower color pallette, but I had the idea that if the edges of pixels are, in effect, feathering and displaying what we see as "noise", if we were to put a solid black background behind the image and turn down the transparency (prior to any sort of correction or darkening), would that calm the "noise" in an image?

I'm getting a better computer to handle my 24mbps data so I haven't been able to test the theory yet, but is that effectively what "noise" is -- not the pixels themselves, but the place inbetween where the pixels meet?

I feel like "noise" should be such an easy fix. In photoshop if you drag a brush across the screen and the brush is sporadically bristled, you would, in effect, have pixelation. If you take a smudge tool to those pixels, though, you can blend them and eradicate the pixelation. I'm not sure at what point smudging a video image would damage the actual image (though often people do not like the crisp HD image and prefer something a bit softer), but if it's just the stuff inbetween these tiny pixels that's causing all the drama, a soft touch should be able to clean it up, I'd think.

Maybe a list of the best plug-ins for filtering noise?

I saw these talked about:


http://www.neatvideo.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UONnUe2gVpE

http://www.vimeo.com/6689722
 
Last edited:
Ian-T said:
Download and take a look at other 7D productions on Vimeo. I don't know about resolving power vs the 5Dll but they both seem to produce the same image besides the 5Dll having a little cleaner image at the same ISO. Also, there are some native ISOs on the 7D that are much cleaner than others. You'll have to look those up but i don't think 400 was one of them.
Click to expand...

Vimeo isn't a good place for see the quality of these tools.
Plug a 7d and a 5d mkII in a full hd ( or hd ready) tv , this is the right way for understund the quality, the resoution and dynamic range.
On Vimeo all cameras are the best...

Ivan
 
Lot of times 'noise' is when someone pumps up way too much gain i.e. high speed ISO or shoots in way too low light. These cameras are great but the irony is that expensive film cameras are a lot more forgiving in situations with inadequate lighting. So rather than denoise in post, which is making lemons into lemonade arm yourself with books on cinematographer and a more powerful lighting kit.

Noah
 
You know I just watched a ton of the Betrayal fest videos and recently I watched several of the Beyond the Still contest videos over at Vimeo and never once did I say to myself "God if only there was less noise this would be a great film." I did cringe at bad sound, poor composition, etc. I also noticed there are a ton of talented film makers out there who are using the tools they have including DSLR's to make great films.

Roy
 
IvanF said:
Vimeo isn't a good place for see the quality of these tools.
Click to expand...
Right...that's why I'm suggesting to go to Vimeo...and download the original footage (not watch it on Vimeo). Preferrably something saved as 1920x1080. Even then it will still be better than what you watch online but still compressed.

@movieman711, I think the OP's concern is more for broadcast....not necessarily Web viewing.
 
Sounds like the OP had the ISO set to 400, but maybe didn't have shutter speed and aperture locked down as well. I haven't really had a problem with nice at ISO 400 if everything else is locked (so there is no auto-exposure going on) and everything is lit properly. Obviously ISO 100 or 200 is better, but I haven't found 400 to be out of control.
 
IvanF and Lumiere need to learn how to properly shoot with the DSLR camera in order to get the best out of it but that goes for ALL cameras, even RED lol, right? My first time shooting with any camera that I owned was disappointing to me but after learning how to use it and then finding the sweet spot according to my taste, it's been all gravy baby!
 
IvanF said:
Hi,
i just shoot a commercial with 7d and nikon pimes lens.
After a day of shooting I'm very disappointed for the quality, expecially wiht the noise in the shadow.
All the shoot at 400 iso with a lot ( much) noise and no details.
poor resolution.
After that I did a test side by side with Canon 5d MkII.
Same light, same Iso, same lens.
The 5D mkII isn't a Canon Xha1 or Sony EX 1 (3) for the resolution, but seem better, much better than 7D.
resolution, noise, dynamic, are better in 5 d MkII.
Is only my impression or is the true?

thanks.
Click to expand...
Having worked in post before becoming a DP there's one thing I can confidently suggest: let's view the source footage.
 
Lumiere said:
For me those dslr's are SD cameras, i mean you can not deliver a project in any HD format, it will look very poor.I was also very disappointed the fisrt time i shot with 7D, but the more you shoot the more your footage gets better, but if you spend that efford with any kind of hig-end camcorder you'll do better than any dslr:) Thats what i think..
Click to expand...

I know this can sound a little sarcastic on an Internet forum so please don't take it that way.

My question is, what about a 1920x1080p image downsampled from a larger pixel count isn't HD? I know there's line skipping involved. Have you seen the image projected?

I shoot with Varicams as well so I know what each camera has to offer and their limitations. Please enlighten.

Thanks.
 
Jay Rodriguez said:
IvanF and Lumiere need to learn how to properly shoot with the DSLR camera in order to get the best out of it but that goes for ALL cameras, even RED lol, right? My first time shooting with any camera that I owned was disappointing to me but after learning how to use it and then finding the sweet spot according to my taste, it's been all gravy baby!
Click to expand...


It's true, but I'm talking about resolution and noise as technical facts.
Before this work I did a lot of test.
The DOP done a good lighting work but the 7D in some situations can't manage the scene.
Tvl/l aren't like a full HD should be.

When possible I will post some frame.

Ivan
 
320 iso is better... if you can get a bit more light. 160/320/640 iso steps seem to be cleaner.

Also, what in camera setting did you use? did you have skin tones on?
 
stockfuel said:
320 iso is better... if you can get a bit more light. 160/320/640 iso steps seem to be cleaner.

Also, what in camera setting did you use? did you have skin tones on?
Click to expand...

Picture style Neutral with sharpness and contrast to lower level.

Ivan
 
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