1DC: Canon 1Dx mkII to shoot 4k video, 5D mkIV not so much. Also: C100 4k witin 18 months?

Well I don't think I have read this anywhere else....the point of which I will get to shortly...

I also do web design and mobile apps and the trend now is to think mobile first when implimenting a design or theme.
That is difficult to do when you have always designed for desktop.

Got me thinking about shooting sports videos which I love to do but last time I did so I was standing on a hill overlooking the game with my Canon 5D3 and C100.
On a cold evening with rain starting to fall I regretted haven taken both Cameras but had only done so to get great photos and video.

I wish Canon would develop a good stills option in a C100 body as well as video.....that would be brilliant.

It is a nuisance to lug around 2 cameras and look after them...
 
Canon kind of has a product like that - XC10. I only shot video with it a few times and the image is really nice, but the fixed lens is the biggest issue. I never took stills with it.
 
1D C may still the best hybrid shooter - and priced accordingly - but A7RII is arguably the best buy.
 
I may end up eating my words once April (NAB) rolls around.. but I really doubt Canon would release a c100mkIII or enable c100mkII to do 4K via firmware...it's nowhere in Canon's MO and makes horrible business to completely devalue the $16K C300MKII which just hit shelves a month or so ago... SONY releases cameras every weekend... and that's fine for their business... but Canon has never been in the business of devaluing their own products so quickly by releasing a replacement camera before the proper shelf life of the current model. Original C300s still sell for $6K.
Yes, would everyone LOVE a c100mk3 with 4K,AF,etc for sub $3K.... of course... but thats impractical with Canon's current lineup.

On the other hand, XC10mkII or XC20 may hit the missing mark. Canon is in the cinema game now, so outstanding 4K video in DSLRs is not priority. the XC series seems to meet the middle of compact camera focused on video... I briefly owned the XC10 and loved it as gimbal camera along-side C300MKII, but the lens was the killer... make a new version with either an EF mount or constant wider aperture.... and you've got a void in the lineup well filled.

...Granted, this can all be different in a few months.
 
implicted said:
...devalue the $16K C300MKII...
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The C300MKII would still have significantly more features over a C100MKIII which would not devalue it, probably including but not limited to: better DPAF, 12bit, extra NDs, > 60fps, 4 channel sound, pikachu, SDI outputs, better screen, etc. When the C100 came out it didn't stop sales of the C300.
 
Matt Turner said:
The C300MKII would still have significantly more features over a C100MKIII which would not devalue it, probably including but not limited to: better DPAF, 12bit, extra NDs, > 60fps, 4 channel sound, pikachu, SDI outputs, better screen, etc. When the C100 came out it didn't stop sales of the C300.
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Well... the pikachu is a win. ;) I just think that if they were going to put 4K into the c100 body... it would've been done already... the C300 does have the additional "professional" outputs... but I just dont see them competing with themselves that way... if they are fighting Sony's FS7 or FS5, which they claim they are not, then I could see it... but it would be unlike Canon to add too much to the lower line (C100) while infringing on the higher end (300) ..... then again... they'll get their money one way or another from whatever camera they currently have or decide to release
 
Of course the C100 mkIII will have 4k and the new codec.

The C100 mkII was the first one out of the gate. Since its release we've seen the C300 mkII and the XC10. And especially with the XC10 sitting well below $2000 (at least the version without media), Canon can't release a C100 mkIII at $6499-6995 without 4k and a worse codec.

The lineup looks very nice and clean to me:

  • Below $3000: XC10 line. 4k, solid codec and Canon Log. Lightweight and flexible, but with a small sensor and fixed lens. Prosumer with some professional application.
  • Above $5000 (-$7000): C100 line. Entry level professional cameras. Large sensor with EF-mount, Canon log. Professional body and ergonomics.
  • At $12000+ we have the C300 line. Canon's high end broadcast cameras. Feature rich and flexible. Well accepted workhorse.
  • Special interest: C500 line. Test bench. Niche. Might showcase interesting technology with questionable price/performance.

With each generation we the C100 coming into its own. I expect the mkIII to get CFast, and with that a new codec that will make it powerful enough to do basically anything. Add to this access to the full resolution of its already 4k sensor and we'll have a very powerful entry level camera: generally praised color science paired with usability features such as Canon's DPAF (market leading).

For doc and indie film, I see a camera almost without fault. I have no expectations on frame rates other than 25p in 4k. This won't be a high fps beast.

Those of you wanting a $3000 C100 mkIII with 4k, 60p and "extra everything": come back when you're 16 years old (sorry, but…).
 
Regarding merging of photo and video in one camera: it's actually a very old request. But the way I see it (unfortunately), Canon uses the Digic series of chips in the DSLRs and then they have their dedicated DV (Digic Video, I think) chips in camcorders and the Cinema EOS line. Until now, there is no camera body that houses both of these lines.

I wouldn't expect a Canon camera soon that could shoot raw stills (.cr2) as well as Cinema Line grade video. I think the video implementation in the DSLR line using h.264 is pretty basic. I also think this is the reason that the 1Dc uses the mjepg codec.

I would VERY MUCH like to be wrong here. A 1Dx mkII with 4k into a real video codec like the XC10 would be great. Let's hope it happens.
 
AndreeOnline said:
...Add to this access to the full resolution of its already 4k sensor...
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You think they'll "run out" the existing sensor on the C100 MKIII, but unlock it's full potential a-la the C500 MKI? While the C300 MKII & C500 MKII get to use the new sensor?

To be honest I'd be pretty happy with that. I always thought the C100 MKI had fewer features because the sensor must have cost a significant percent of the price when originally released.

I'm assuming by now that model sensors production costs are well reduced, so transferring some C500 MKI tech + Digic DV 5 + CFast + Moores law should mean we can get some C500 resolutions into the C100 MKIII.

That would be sweet and still differentiate the C300 MKIII by having the "15 stops" sensor.
 
AndreeOnline said:
Regarding merging of photo and video in one camera: it's actually a very old request. But the way I see it (unfortunately), Canon uses the Digic series of chips in the DSLRs and then they have their dedicated DV (Digic Video, I think) chips in camcorders and the Cinema EOS line. Until now, there is no camera body that houses both of these lines....
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But ... 1D C uses dual Digic 5's (whose time has passed anyway).

Btw, four years ago, most chips were at best 28nm and most were ... 65? Now, it's 14 and, by 2017, it should be 10. A similar design to 1D C with dual processors should be easily doing HEVC.

PS. I agree on the lineup but Canon has a dilemma with the 1D X MKII and C 100 MKIII. If they release these two in the same price range, C100 would have to be stripped of photo capabilities and 1D X would have to suffer in video features.

Oh and C500 MKII should be an F5 replacement competitor. With the double-the-price concept, it'll be in the $30,000 neighborhood from the start. If it's announced at the NAB'16, one has to figure a 6K res at worst. Then, there's that 8K camera on the horizon.
 
Matt Turner said:
You think they'll "run out" the existing sensor on the C100 MKIII, but unlock it's full potential a-la the C500 MKI?
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I think a C100 mkIII would get the best sensor available at the time of release. If I'd guess now, that would still be the C300 mkII sensor mid 2016.
 
DLD said:
But ... 1D C uses dual Digic 5's (whose time has passed anyway)
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Yes. I think the 1Dx mkII will get two of the top of the line Digic+ sensors available to Canon, similar to recent releases.

The 1Dx (and 1Dc) uses dual Digic 5+ and an additional Digic 4 (for image analysis). The latest known chip is the Digic 6. The 7DmkII and 5Ds(R) uses two of those each.

The 1Dx mkII will hopefully get two Digic 7+ and… well, that is the question?

Since the Digic 4, Canon has had full HD h.264. But all the video features in the XC10 and C300 mkII such as 422 XF-AVC is based on the latest Digic DV (5 currently) chip. That is another FAMILY of chips, not just a question of performance.

But, hey... let's roll with it and spec the wet dream: Dual Digic 7+ and a DV5. I don't think that is likely. I'll restrain myself to hoping that a possible Digic 7+ might beef up the HD h.264 to something more substantial. But I'm not at all sure about that.

The fact that everything is open at this point makes for exciting times. I just want to highlight that the Digic and Digic DV are two separate lines of chips that hasn't previously been shared between DSLRs and camcorders/Cinema EOS.
 
If the 1DXII has AT LEAST what the XC10 has besides the 720/120fps, I'll be happy. 4K/60p would be so great, but I would rather have very clean and high-quality 120fps in 1080p. Not the terrible moire/aliasing-filled, low-quality 120fps the XC10 has now in 720p.
 
Stills shooters never liked HD video impeding their stills progress, but 4K+ video is the new high speed burst for the times old optical shooting bursts don't cut it. As the line blurs between resolution, and storage gets cheaper, there is no difference.

1080p was always a boring capture medium.
 
AndreeOnline said:
... But, hey... let's roll with it and spec the wet dream: Dual Digic 7+ and a DV5. I don't think that is likely. I'll restrain myself to hoping that a possible Digic 7+ might beef up the HD h.264 to something more substantial. But I'm not at all sure about that.

The fact that everything is open at this point makes for exciting times. I just want to highlight that the Digic and Digic DV are two separate lines of chips that hasn't previously been shared between DSLRs and camcorders/Cinema EOS.
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When 1D C came out, it was the only internal 4K piece Canon had at the time. Nowadays, they have 1D X MKII bracketed with a higher end C300 MKII and lower end XC10. Speculating profusely, I'd think that 1DX MKII will be a stripped down version of C300 MKII. They'd share the same architecture but not the same features. XC10 will probably evolve into 5D MKIV and likely into the entire mid-end DSLR line, from 70D MKII to 6D MKII, 7D MKIII and so on.
 
AndreeOnline said:
Regarding merging of photo and video in one camera: it's actually a very old request.
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...well in my case it is just a case of me getting old.....ten years ago I would have had no problem lugging around a C100 for video, 5D3 for photos and two sets of accessories etc..

..but now I find it just a real pain in the ^%$.....it is like crap in a house the older we get.....less is more....
 
EIREHotspur said:
...well in my case it is just a case of me getting old.....ten years ago I would have had no problem lugging around a C100 for video, 5D3 for photos and two sets of accessories etc..
Click to expand...

I can totally relate. I had a 5DmkIII and bought a C100. I like the photos from the mkIII and the video from the C100. But I didn't like the way it felt to leave one camera behind many times. Like you, I didn't want to lug two complete setups, so it became a question of what the primary task was: photo or video?

I sold both bodies and bought the cheapest solution to my problem: the 1Dc. Been very happy with it since.
 
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With about two weeks until reveal (Canon's media event first week of Feb), Canonrumors offers this 'confirmed' spec list:

Specifications:


  • Resolution: 22mp
  • Media: 1 CFast / 1 CompactFlash
  • LCD: Some touchscreen functionality
  • Video: 4K at 60fps (other video specifications unknown)
  • Feature: GPS
  • Feature: Intervalometer
  • Price: $5999 USD (could fluctuate slightly)
  • Announcement: First week of February 2016
  • Shipping: April 2016

Unconfirmed Specifications:


  • Feature: 4K RAW video mode for frame capture for stills

CR has leaked a number of CR3 rumors lately. It feel like they have been drip fed info from, basically, Canon. The wait comes to an end soon.
 
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