Black Magic PocketHD and 4K production camera

vanvideo said:
I didn't list any particular cameras, but as an example, the FS100, FS700, F3, C300, C100, XF305, XF300, XF100, XF105, EX1R, EX3, PMW200, PMW160 and AF100 all have battery slots. There are many more I can list.
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Most of those cameras are considered Prosumer, what's not on your list are Cinema cameras: F65, F55, RED ONE, RED EPIC, Arri Alexa, so on and so forth.
I don't get your questions, but I will sum it up as I have been saying: I expect my cameras to have a slot, plate, whatever, that I can attach a battery to. A plate, slot, etc. from the factory, built into the camera. Every camera I have ever used has this. It's a very handy feature.
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I understand now, though. If the camera came with an extra plate so you don't have to buy anything else but the battery to use (most cameras do not come like this from the factory, Anton Bauer plates are part of camera packages from distributors) then i would be better.

That isnt' a flaw of the camera, that's just ... well that's just how some people think and I definitely do NOT understand it. But hey, I guess it is what it is.
 
Kholi said:
Service, under warranty free of charge I believe. Out of warranty 100.00 replacement.
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I worded my question incorrectly. I'm not concerned with the battery cycle, but with having to return the cam for service to replace the battery at the end of its life.
 
Thanks, Steve, that was quite informative. I wonder if they did anything at all to the new cameras to diminish this problem, or if there is nothing they can really do without a filter. I guess we'll wait until these cams are in the wild and then test the heck out of them :)
 
Barry_Green said:
at the same time they totally ignored the most egregious failing in their design, the lack of a proper OLPF. Odd. It sounds like they expect to develop some sort of add-on, either by themselves or with Mosaic or whatever.

I am not interested in a non-OLPF camera but may become very interested when the proposed solution is a reality and can be evaluated.
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After having to remove noise with NeatVideo in virtually EVERY shot of my last short film I would gladly trade HORRENDOUS DANCING noise in the blacks for a few shots of moire or aliasing.

Funny but Panasonic never came up with a fix for (or even really acknowledged) the AF100 noise... Barry?
 
Steve Kahn said:
After having to remove noise with NeatVideo in virtually EVERY shot of my last short film I would gladly trade HORRENDOUS DANCING noise in the blacks for a few shots of moire or aliasing.

Funny but Panasonic never came up with a fix for (or even really acknowledged) the AF100 noise... Barry?
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Really! Man that was discussed to death on this site and it will boil down to your viewing material on a computer and maybe with a poor graphics card. View it properly. (wanna fill him in on a subject that is two years old Barry?)
 
vanvideo said:
I didn't list any particular cameras, but as an example, the FS100, FS700, F3, C300, C100, XF305, XF300, XF100, XF105, EX1R, EX3, PMW200, PMW160 and AF100 all have battery slots. There are many more I can list.

The shoulder mount Sony, JVC and Panasonic cameras I owned and/or used all had a plate on the back that was either an AB or V-mount. They do not require an extra rig, they come this way.
I have no idea how to power a RED, but there seems to be a grip that has a slot for a battery. They seem to have an accessory slot that can take a RED battery, but I don't know for sure.

I don't get your questions, but I will sum it up as I have been saying: I expect my cameras to have a slot, plate, whatever, that I can attach a battery to. A plate, slot, etc. from the factory, built into the camera. Every camera I have ever used has this. It's a very handy feature.
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You are looking at the BMCC battery situation totally wrong. Don't even think of the internal battery as a normal power source. It is basically a bonus so the camera continues to have power while you swap external batteries. Many consider this a massive bonus power source. It is also an option to grab the camera and get a couple of quick shots without having to slap on extra batteries. Again they could have decided not to add the internal battery at all and just made it a BYOB type of a camera.

The problem with some of the cameras you mentioned is that they use proprietary batteries and in many situations an entirely new battery design for each new model. The GH1, GH2 and GH3 for example all use different batteries. It is a PITA moving from one camera to another and ranks up there with stupid printer ink. True professionals don't want to deal with that crap. They would prefer a universal battery solution that can be adapted to any camera. That my friend is what makes a professional power system.

Sure the BMCC doesn't have a AB plate built in but how much would you like the cost of the camera to go up? What if somebody wants to use something else? Should they have to pay BMD extra for a plate they may not use? BMD is the most democratic camera system ever in terms of power because they say hey power it with whatever you want. Add in AB or anything else. If you feel extra funky today go to RadioShack and rig up your own. Rip apart your kids toy car and roll your own if you will. Do what the heck ever you want to feed some juice into that puppy. While at it however they throw in a free power source to get people started and act as a bridge when true professionals want to swap batteries so they don't have to shut down. Sounds pretty darn good to me.
 
Was it stated somewhere what data rates are needed for the sd cards and the different recording formats?
 
While a bit late to this party I get it...some people have difficulty wrapping their head around the non-removable battery. Me too, or at least I did.
I had a similar discussion with myself when I acquired a BM Shuttle2 a year ago.

Not the most elegant solution but I just powered it with a Tekkeon 3450 (which also kept the internal battery in the Shuttle fully charged). I think I might go the same way with the BMCC, power by the 3450 while on sticks then internal when I pull it off for that handheld shot.

Granted it's not a solution for everyone (or every situation) but it'll work for me . . . and the price is certainly right.

Now I just have to decide between the BMCC or the new 4k version (I already placed an order for the pocket cam). It really looks like the "original" with Canon mount is the best fit for me.
 
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Barry_Green said:
... BlackMagic puzzles me. ... the lack of a proper OLPF. Odd. It sounds like they expect to develop some sort of add-on, either by themselves or with Mosaic or whatever. ...
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</future on>

I'll be very, very, very surprised if within 4-6 months BMD doesn't either buy Mosaic outright or license their anti-alias OLPF filter technology. Of course, BMD could roll their own OLPF from scratch, but that'd take longer.

I also expect that one of the cameras they announce at NAB 2014 will be the BMPC-4K's big brother (S35 w. 5K, 60p & "E" or interchangeable lens mount) @ $4K-$7K in a new rig-friendly form factor. Ya'll will really like that one. :-)

</future off>
 
Peter J. DeCrescenzo said:
</future on>

I'll be very, very, very surprised if within 4-6 months BMD doesn't either buy Mosaic outright or license their anti-alias OLPF filter technology. Of course, BMD could roll their own OLPF from scratch, but that'd take longer.

I also expect that one of the cameras they announce at NAB 2014 will be the BMPC-4K's big brother (S35 w. 5K, 60p & "E" or interchangeable lens mount) @ $4K-$7K in a new rig-friendly form factor. Ya'll will really like that one. :-)

</future off>
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Announcing the new BMCC 2 for NAB 2014....

FF sensor with 6K
Global Shutter 2.0
120 fps
16 bit RAW
"Universal" lens mount
Sata Express (16GB per second)
18 stops of DR
Sees in the dark
Size of Pocket Cam
$4K.

Still:
No OLPF
Internal Battery
 
I just saw the rolling shutter test on the BMPC which ofcourse had no rolling shutter at all. I've been waiting for this moment for ever. Finally someone did it! I can go back to shooting handheld (which I never actually left but anyway). I am just giddy. This is...awesome. Awesome guys! DO YOU GET IT?!
 
maarek said:
I just saw the rolling shutter test on the BMPC which ofcourse had no rolling shutter at all. I've been waiting for this moment for ever. Finally someone did it! I can go back to shooting handheld (which I never actually left but anyway). I am just giddy. This is...awesome. Awesome guys! DO YOU GET IT?!
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It is a big deal. Looking forward to seeing footage "soon".
 
maarek said:
I just saw the rolling shutter test on the BMPC which ofcourse had no rolling shutter at all. I've been waiting for this moment for ever. Finally someone did it! I can go back to shooting handheld (which I never actually left but anyway). I am just giddy. This is...awesome. Awesome guys! DO YOU GET IT?!
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Great. Anyone know how is the noise in low light and what ISO does it go up to? The other two potential bogeymen with a sensor this size.
 
Great, back on topic and with a relevant discussion!

Things I want to know about about the BMC-4K:
1) DR
2) fast-shutter artifacts in highlights (potential issue if sensor is CMV12000)
3) exposure aids (because you need them if (2))
4) ISO and noise
5) details about the compressed RAW format (if lossy: how is software support?)
 
About the only feature that would completely round out the BMPC is a higher framerate recording option for slo-mo. I think most would be more than fine with a 60 or 120fps 2K mode. In one of the posted videos the Blackmagic rep hinted that higher frame rates could be in the near future. I wonder if you could take the BMPC SDI out and use it with the new Odyssey recorder to get 2K slo-mo. I know CD would have to create a codec that would work with the BMPC, but I imagine there would be more than a couple of people interested in that option....lol

I am still blown away by how much camera you are getting for the price. Unbelievable really.
 
Samuel H said:
Great, back on topic and with a relevant discussion!

Things I want to know about about the BMC-4K:
1) DR
2) fast-shutter artifacts in highlights (potential issue if sensor is CMV12000)
3) exposure aids (because you need them if (2))
4) ISO and noise
5) details about the compressed RAW format (if lossy: how is software support?)
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1) 12 stops
4) Brawley's answer about native ISO on Twitter was "it's the same for the pocket as the BMCC. Same sensor. The 4k hasn't been worked out yet, but probably slower."
5) video: https://vimeo.com/63734742

In one of the posted videos the Blackmagic rep hinted that higher frame rates could be in the near future.
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In the live Q&A they did Monday, they stated they had no plans to bring HFR options to any of their current/announced cameras. Brawley has confirmed as much. You'll probably be waiting for gen3 for that.
 
refocusedmedia said:
1) 12 stops
4) Brawley's answer about native ISO on Twitter was "it's the same for the pocket as the BMCC. Same sensor. The 4k hasn't been worked out yet, but probably slower."
5) video: https://vimeo.com/63734742



In the live Q&A they did Monday, they stated they had no plans to bring HFR options to any of their current/announced cameras. Brawley has confirmed as much. You'll probably be waiting for gen3 for that.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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Never pay attention to BM reps at trade shows except for Dan May. But also ignore Canon reps, including their pro hotline, for several weeks after a new camera is introduced. In both cases you probably know as much as them. Done deliberately to contain information flow.

John gives hints that the DR may be slightly under 12 stops.
 
philiplipetz said:
Never pay attention to BM reps at trade shows except for Dan May. But also ignore Canon reps, including their pro hotline, for several weeks after a new camera is introduced. In both cases you probably know as much as them. Done deliberately to contain information flow.

John gives hints that the DR may be slightly under 12 stops.
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Correct Dan May has said in a video they tried but they just have too many heat and quality issues trying to go to 60p right now. In fact I believe he said he doubts even a firmware could do it. It is a fundamental camera design that makes it harder to push the camera to higher frame rates even if the sensor itself could be capable. They really wanted to do it but at this price point just could not.

60p will only happen with a totally new camera design. Of course they may come up with a breakthrough that allows them to get to 60p but I would not suggest anybody hold their breath. This is why companies like Canon and Sony get the big bucks for doing their own sensor design.
 
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