Avatar - James Cameron Returns! (Spoilers in thread, obviously!)

I think it actually looks pretty photo real to me, (other than perhaps the facial movements as Jason mentioned) but I think what it is is the Color Grading. I know James Cameron is a puriest but we are so used to films having a look or being gritty that when we see a "normal" movie with CG it looks wrong. Minority Report did a great job of blending effects with heavy color grading and noise (grit if you will) and D-9 also had a look to it (a yellowed desaturation... of course it also had amazing effects and pitch perfect motion tracking which always makes things look realer (amazing movie by the way)

For example:

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Not that is what JC should do, mine is a quick crappy example but CG isn't to a point where it can't be "hidden" a little.


I do think the story will be great, I mean it's JC for JC's sake.
 
Sad Max said:
Feh. Anyone with time to waste could compile a similar list pulling stills from a few dozen other films. What, a MC two-shot in silhouette profile is now enough to create linkage between movies? And set in a forest, etc?

Please.
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What's funny is if any body is copying any body... I mean Avatar was written back in what 95...
 
jeremytuttle said:
What's funny is if any body is copying any body... I mean Avatar was written back in what 95...
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that was another similarity pointed out in the article. apparently Delgo also had a decade long journey to the screen. don't think anyone is "copying", it's just fun to note how much Delgo looks like Avatar-lite on the surface. maybe we're just seeing a 10+ year-long delayed version of the Dante's Peak vs Volcano phenomenon.
 
Well...when I first read the script it felt familiar. Not in the sense that I had read or seen it before, but in the sense that it felt right. There was a lot of yeah, that's *just* what *ought* to happen, here! while reading it.

Hard to explain, actually.
 
Zak Forsman said:
that was another similarity pointed out in the article. apparently Delgo also had a decade long journey to the screen. don't think anyone is "copying", it's just fun to note how much Delgo looks like Avatar-lite on the surface. maybe we're just seeing a 10+ year-long delayed version of the Dante's Peak vs Volcano phenomenon.
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ha ha yeah, or antz and bugs, armageddon and uh... uh... that one with Morgan Freeman... I do think people get the same ideas a lot, something in the cosmos
 
Jar Jar Binks

Where the Wild Things Are looks real to me. It stimulates the imagination side of my brain.

Avatar looks mathematical and weightless.
 
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I'm a little late to this one but I have to chime in.

I've been aware of Avatar in the back of my head over the past year or so the way someone's aware that a new hardware store that's supposed to revolutionize shopping for your home is opening in town. Yeah, once the store opens, I'll probably stop by and get that wall grout that I've been meaning to pick up because I've heard they've got a really good selection and great prices. I can't help but be curious. I mean, I've bought grout before but if somebody is supposed to revolutionize it, I can't help but wonder, right? Opening day finally arrives and I go pick up my grout and had a decent shopping experience. Big store. Price was pretty good. That girl who rang me up was really cute. However, as I walk out of the store back into the blinding daylight, I can't help but feel that nothing was all that exciting and new.

I say all this to say, I have nothing against James Cameron but I think he may of promised more than he's able to deliver. Maybe 14 years of thinking about this one project has skewed his perspective. I mean, I didn't really see anything of quality in there that Squaresoft hasn't been putting in their Final Fantasy stuff for last five years or so. It looks like it could be a fun movie but there wasn't much in there that the animators in the industry haven't been doing already. My other problem is with the fact that the story, thus far seems kind of week. I too am reminded of Delgo which was marched out into the cold dark streets and stoned by critics. Is it really another dastardly man with evil machines versus native naturalistic holistic warrior tribes? Ah, that old chestnut!

As far as people only being able to connect with humanoid, bipedal creatures, tell that to Pixar who've made movies with cars, fish, monsters, non-english speaking robots that have charmed millions. That argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. HA! See what I did there?

Still willing to give it a chance but speaking as audience and an animator this isn't revolutionary. Wow, I sound really negative. I'll check it out.

*getting down off of soapbox*
 
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Is this trailer a joke to lower expectations?

Ok, I won't judge until I see it but it is nothing close to what I was told...
 
Jim Klatt said:
Jar Jar Binks

Where the Wild Things Are looks real to me. It stimulates the imagination side of my brain.

Avatar looks mathematical and weightless.
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I'd agree but then again Wild Things looks more real because a lot more of the frame is photographic. In the case of the monsters, they are real people walking around complete sets in suits with real animatronic faces, which are then sweetened and enhanced with CG to be more expressive.

In Avatar there are many shots that are 100% CG, so the eye and brain have nothing to lock in on that's 'real'. I wonder if CG will ever get to the point where a 100% CG sequence can sustain. Of course, you've seen many movies already where 100% CG shots are mixed in with shots incorporating real photographic footage and you might not have even noticed if the editing was elegant enough and the CG well-done.

But to go 100% CG for extended periods without any real reference and not look 'CG'- well I just don't think we're there yet. Movies like Avatar and the upcoming Zemeckis' Christmas Carol are wall-to-wall CG animation. I imagine few eyes are fooled that they're seeing something that ever existed outside of a computer. And maybe we won't ever be there, until there's some massive breakthrough in the way CG animation is created.

-Noah
 
I dunno, one CG sequence that fooled me was the baby in children of men. But I think a lot of that was because of the lighting.
 
I think 100% CG can and does work but only if it's from a certain distance of your eye. To me things become more and more fake as their distance increases. There are CG renderings of room, up close of coins or cups, even faces that with enough work can completely fool you given enough lighting work, sub surface scattering, etc. But it's when your looking at things very far away that it gets a little iffy. Even if all the atmospherics and such are correct, things still look a tad fake. I agree with a previous poster that the grading and overall look of the footage can have a lot to do with it.

At the same time I understand that I'll never be fooled by a shot I know couldn't be done with a real camera in a real place...and since the world the movie takes place in is basically fake...I'll never buy it. It'll always be "nice effect" not "nice mountain."
 
I saw someone on Facebook say the best part about seeing the preview was the large coke he had, so I think this movie is going to swing both ways no matter what lol...
 
I think CG is like a toupee. People will laugh and say you shouldn't wear them, but in reality this only applies to the ones that they notice (i.e. the ones that don't work).

Honestly, I don't mind the CG in avatar. Some of it looks pretty damn good. I think we're just expecting too much out of the film. Besides, often visual effects aren't 100% done when the teasers or trailers come out. They may still have a filter or two to add.
 
I'm not that much more amped about Zemekis' A Christmas Carol project than I am about Avatar (just 60 or 70 times more...)


Edited to add:
Hell, I'm looking forward to the Toy Story 3D double feature more than Avatar!
 
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Gary French said:
I caught the 16 minute preview yesterday and it was pretty damn amazing. The CGI looks great in 3D, much better than the 2D trailer. The difference between 2D Avatar & 3D Avatar is like day & night. I was blown away when the main character first wakes up in the Avatar body, it all just looked so real.

The audience I was with also enjoyed the hell out of it. There was a chase scene that made the entire audience gasp (followed by the 'holy shi*' giggles) when it ended.
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You are right on! I've seen it on the IMAX screen aswell. It was the most amazing experience I've seen in a while! I've watched the 2D trailer afterwards and I must say it doesn't even come close to the 3D experience.

It doesn't look 100% photo realistic. It still looks too smooth. But it is pretty close and looks really terrific!

What makes this so special is the movement and facial expressions of the characters. Simply amazing.

The scene where he wakes up was definitely the most convincing part. Your brain gets really fooled to think that it looks so real. Moving on to the complete CG scenes it doesn't hold up, but it is still amazing.
 
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Wow, I'm shocked that the consensus is that everyone isn't totally blown away by this trailer. I'll admit to being a bit underwhelmed by some early Avatar screenshots, mainly this one that was leaked a week ago (which was later revealed to be a photoshoped composite that isn't an actual shot in the film).

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After seeing the teaser though, man, I'm stoked to see this. It looks absolutely amazing. Does it look 100% realistic? Maybe not every single shot, but to my eyes it looks about 98% there overall. Some shots in the teaser, like these...

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... look 100% real to me. Especially that last shot. Wow!!! Look at the hair. But what really got me was that you could really see the emotion come through these shots, more than I've seen on other CGI characters. I guess I am surprised more people aren't excited to get to visit an alien world created by none other than James freaking Cameron. This is no remake or sequel, but a completely new story and world to experience. Even if there are a few wonky shots in there, this is an Edgar Rice Burroughs John Carter of Mars inspired sci-fi action flick with James Cameron's awesome utilitarian and overall believable designs and gadgets thrown in. Throw in a score by James Horner, and my head is about to explode!!!!!

Plus, the Avatar game looks pretty good too. A respectable developer, Ubisoft, is behind it. It will be interesting to see how the 3D works at home on the 360 or PS3. The way Cameron talked about how he collaborated with Ubisoft on developing the game, it sounds like an actual good movie to game adaptation, when normally these kinds of things aren't done well at all.

This December I'm gonna overload on Avatar. So much so that maybe I'll turn blue.
 
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