AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

Osslund said:
I guess just because I do not agree I have no right to post in this subject? A forum is for discussion not agreeing!
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This is the problem...you have made it clear you don't like this camera with multiple posts....that is not discussing, that is "my way or the highway". Forums are for sharing info, not for trying to make everyone else agree with your point of view. This kind of posting has been going on lately far too much and it needs to stop. It drives good people with good info to share away....guys like Barry will just stop contributing to the forum and that would be a loss for everyone. A few years back, there were quite a few good, working people from the middle and upper levels of production here in LA that wrote a lot of great info on this and other forums...but stopped because of the "school yard" behavior of some posters. I asked one particular name DP why he stopped and he said..."a bunch of kids who want to argue instead of listening"...and he was 29 at the time!
To some of you out there, let's get back to what this site was designed for....sharing, not arguing.

Jim Martin
 
Jim Martin said:
This is the problem...you have made it clear you don't like this camera with multiple posts....that is not discussing, that is "my way or the highway". Forums are for sharing info, not for trying to make everyone else agree with your point of view. This kind of posting has been going on lately far too much and it needs to stop. It drives good people with good info to share away....guys like Barry will just stop contributing to the forum and that would be a loss for everyone. A few years back, there were quite a few good, working people from the middle and upper levels of production here in LA that wrote a lot of great info on this and other forums...but stopped because of the "school yard" behavior of some posters. I asked one particular name DP why he stopped and he said..."a bunch of kids who want to argue instead of listening"...and he was 29 at the time!
To some of you out there, let's get back to what this site was designed for....sharing, not arguing.

Jim Martin
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Pfft! Like any of the LA guys know anything! I read on the internets (so it has to be true) that most LA guys get all their information from the internets.

LOL, joking of course :)
 
Gary W said:
Black Magic does not have camera's like the F55 and F65 to protect. Their not trying to control the industry their trying to give it what it wants at an affordable price.
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This is another really old and tired trope. That the big companies are somehow conspiring to keep products out of the hands of users. Sure, they may not be as fleet footed as smaller companies, but the logic here reminds me of the moon landing conspiracies.
 
GaryinCalifornia said:
was thinking of my old DVX which I still have... wonder if someone would make a 4k quality lens adapter so you could get a wider view... probably not since the days of every new camera being a fixed lens is somewhat over...

I had one for my DVX... but its somewhere either at the bottom of the ocean or has washed up on the shores of Cancun...

That's a long story...
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Like Letus's Elite or Ultimate?

stoneinapond said:
This is another really old and tired trope. That the big companies are somehow conspiring to keep products out of the hands of users. Sure, they may not be as fleet footed as smaller companies, but the logic here reminds me of the moon landing conspiracies.
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Well, the Japanese companies can do a lot of things that are legal in Japan, so they don't have to be conspiratorial about that. Cartelization is one of those legal things. Think of it as your wont.
 
I'm already signed up for a pre-order for this camera, it ticks all of the boxes for myself. The 4:2:0 internal isn't a concern when my primary output will be HD. But I was curious, other cameras I'm aware of have after market firmware upgrades that improve their feature set, could the dvx200 get 4:2:2 in the future with such an upgrade? Or is the limiting factor likely to be hardware related not software?
 
mattjeh said:
But I was curious, other cameras I'm aware of have after market firmware upgrades that improve their feature set, could the dvx200 get 4:2:2 in the future with such an upgrade? Or is the limiting factor likely to be hardware related not software?
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4:2:2 in 4K is not possible with the 8MP, Bayer sensor in this camera, so if it was added, it would be fake. 10 bit would be theoretically possible, but companies like Panasonic don't traditionally add features like that after they've announced the feature set.
 
mattjeh said:
But I was curious, other cameras I'm aware of have after market firmware upgrades that improve their feature set, could the dvx200 get 4:2:2 in the future with such an upgrade? Or is the limiting factor likely to be hardware related not software?
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We don't know, but my advice would be -- don't count on it. It is possible that new features could be added by firmware, but there are not many instances of it in Panasonic's history; and when they have done it, it's usually been known that the feature would be added even before the camera is released. Example -- on the HPX300, it was released initially with a promise made that Flash Band Compensation would be added in a future firmware update. Or the PX270, it was announced that it would have several frame rate and codec options, but that some wouldn't be added until a future firmware update. There are very few cases of them just saying "surprise! here's new features you never thought you'd get, and we're just sending them to you!" It HAS happened (the AC90A firmware update is an example) but that's pretty much the only example I can think of.

My advice is: if the camera does what you need, buy it. Don't buy something that doesn't do what you need, hoping that maybe it'll change; get it the way you need it or don't buy it...
 
mattjeh said:
I'm already signed up for a pre-order for this camera, it ticks all of the boxes for myself. The 4:2:0 internal isn't a concern when my primary output will be HD. But I was curious, other cameras I'm aware of have after market firmware upgrades that improve their feature set, could the dvx200 get 4:2:2 in the future with such an upgrade? Or is the limiting factor likely to be hardware related not software?
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You can now order a Panasonic glass ball (works internally in 3D-Raw) which is also compatible to other brand's cameras. Preferably to be used with half a bottle of cuban rum (but with origin from Bahamas it's alright, too). Appropriately handled, it forecasts you every camera hard- and software development until 2025. Upgrade for smartphone and game console forecasts available.
 
Barry_Green said:
My advice is: if the camera does what you need, buy it. Don't buy something that doesn't do what you need, hoping that maybe it'll change; get it the way you need it or don't buy it...
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That all makes sense, I'll be getting it because it does do all I'll need it to, the 4:2:0/4:2:2 really isn't an issue for me. It needs to be October ASAP!
 
10-bit 4:2:0 for the UHD would be a nice little addition to this camera. It would also be nice if they would give some user bitrate control to max out what your card is capable of if desired. Just throw a warning up that recording may fail if pushing it too far.
 
also is it wrong that some sick part of me comes here for the drama as much as the actual info? dont judge me. i am what i am.
 
Selfishly I have to say I like the camera, since we DVX users all designed it about 8 months ago! Pretty much the same thing, but no need to change lenses on what Panny made. This was the concept I came up with based on all of us talking about what would be reasonable for a new AF model. So it is a new DVX that's coming, but it's pretty much the best of both worlds.

Panny.jpg
 
Fixed lens is better for me. On a shoot with a proper crew or even ONE assistant, in a smaller area, changing lenses not so big deal. When you're by yourself, wandering around some huge place, or God forbid OUTSIDE, carrying around a backpack all day and having to look for places to set the lenses down that isn't filthy is no fun.
 
My only suggestion would be to follow the path they have in the past, by releasing a P2 (even a micro-P2) version of the camera with AVC-Ultra. Even take a page out of Sony's playbook like they did the EX3 and make the lens removable (with m4/3 mount). Call in the HVX300, sell it for $6,500 street.

Would I buy it? Probably not, the DVX200 is more or less what I'm looking for. But an HVX300 like how I described above would compete nicely against the FS7 and Canon cams.
 
Mike Harvey said:
My only suggestion would be to follow the path they have in the past, by releasing a P2 (even a micro-P2) version of the camera with AVC-Ultra. Even take a page out of Sony's playbook like they did the EX3 and make the lens removable (with m4/3 mount). Call in the HVX300, sell it for $6,500 street.

Would I buy it? Probably not, the DVX200 is more or less what I'm looking for. But an HVX300 like how I described above would compete nicely against the FS7 and Canon cams.
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I have the P2 AVC version in my "brochure" as well, and we agree about what the price would be ;) I said $7,999, but it would of course hit the street at $6,999 or $6,500
 
Osslund said:
I guess just because I do not agree I have no right to post in this subject? A forum is for discussion not agreeing!
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Just go back and look at the resolution charts that Barry posted, post 807.

There should be no doubt from that that it is capable of full 4K (or rather QFHD) resolution - end of story. The beauty of charts is that they PROVE certain facts, and in this case they PROVE a very high level of basic resolution. And it's independent of youtube compression, and all such things. Such doesn't surprise me, given that (as said before) it's fully reading/deBayering/scaling the full chip - it's what I'd expect.

Disagreement about (say) ergonomics may be more of a personal opinion, and then ripe for valid discussion and likely disagreement. But this is different - chart results like this prove a basic level of performance and should be end of story. (At least as far as resolution goes.) If anyone sees footage that they think otherwise of - well, it must be down to bad focus, what they're seeing on the internet, whatever. That chart shows true 4K resolution, at least in that portion of the frame.

Interestingly, those results must be better (at least as far as resolution is concerned) than you'd get with most of the 4K cameras that are currently considered high end - F5, F55, Varicam etc, as they all have 4K Bayer sensors that deBayer down to less than true 4K. That is not for one moment to say that it will therefore be a better camera as such - there's a lot more to "quality" than pure resolution - but..... it makes you think!
 
Mike Warren said:
4:2:2 in 4K is not possible with the 8MP, Bayer sensor in this camera,.........
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The Panasonic brochure lists:
Effective Pixcels: 1549 megapixcel (FHD), 871 megapixcel (UHD/59.94p),
1289 megapixcel (UHD/29.97p), 1335 megapixcel (4K/24p)
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(there should be decimal points, so 15.49 Mp etc) so the 8.7 Mp cropped mode for QFHD 60p is the only one with "only" 8Mp. Other modes are higher - up to nearly 16 Mp for HD.
 
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