AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

Okay, been thinking about this a bit... folks saying that Panasonic isn't listening to them, and "what were they thinking", followed by some of us actually coming around to say "hey, actually, maybe this isn't such a bad idea..."

So -- if you'll indulge me, can I please explore a lesson in history, and compare it to today?

I was here when it happened. I got a DVX100 within a couple of months of its initial release. I saw the market reception for it. People may not remember, but I sure do. It went a little something like this...

Once upon a time, everyone (and I do mean EVERYONE) used Betacam SP. It was the standard, it was a "real" camera, it was what everyone used and nobody saw any reason to use anything else.
Then Panasonic came along with the DVX100, and it was roundly mocked by (seemingly) every BetaSP user on the planet. "Ridiculous", they'd say. "A fixed zoom lens? Hah! Don't they know the standard is interchangeable lenses?", they'd say. "Look how tiny the chips are -- everyone knows that you need a 2/3" chip to make good images!", they'd say. "What a ridiculous recording format; its tape is barely 1/4"!, they said. "No professional would touch that toy camera", they said.

And we know how that story turned out...

So, today, we have a world that has largely been stood on its head. Today, seemingly everybody is using an interchangeable-lens large-sensor camera to shoot all types of projects, ranging from DSLRs up to something like the FS7 or Red, and Panasonic has just introduced a new camera called ... the DVX. And it is being roundly mocked by DSLR and big-chip camera users all around the web. "Ridiculous", they say. "A fixed zoom lens? Hah! Don't they know the standard is interchangeable lenses?", they say. "Look how tiny the 4/3" chip is -- everyone knows that you need an S35 chip to make good images!", they say. "What a ridiculous recording format; it's using GH4 codecs!", they say. "I couldn't possibly show up to a professional job with that camera", they say.

Seems awfully familiar to me. :)

I do wonder -- seeing as Panasonic has zigged while everyone else has zagged, will they catch lightning in a bottle a second time?

Sure, there's a major difference this time -- the DVX introduced 24P to a world that didn't have it, and 24P is ubiquitous now. So that's one big difference from before. But the rest of the arguments all sound very, very, very familiar. Is history repeating? I guess we'll see how this plays out, sometime in the 4th quarter of 2015...
 
folks saying that Panasonic isn't listening to them, and "what were they thinking", followed by some of us actually coming around to say "hey, actually, maybe this isn't such a bad idea..."

Barry, I don't think anyone is thinking that the DVX200 is a bad idea, but rather it's not the camera that we are looking for from Panasonic.

Many of us have bought into the Micro 4/3 lens format, and may have spent a few thousand or more on our m4/3 lens collections believing that Panasonic was going to firmly embrace this new standard.

The AF100 was a fantastic first start in bringing m4/3 into the cine world, and many of us expected Panasonic would keep upping the ante with better Micro 4/3 cine cameras down the road.

But it appears that Panasonic was scared off by the competition from Sony and Canon that popped up soon after the introduction of the AF100, so they sat on their hands for the past four years.

Yes, the GH3 and GH4 has helped to restore our faith in the Micro 4/3 format, but will Panasonic ever make another cine camera with a m4/3 lens mount ?

...So at this point in time I am asking myself "Should I invest in any more Micro 4/3 lenses, or should I move on to another cine camera/lens format ?"

Will Panasonic ever come back to producing a Micro 4/3 cine camera ?

Blackmagic, Canon, or Sony look like they are sure bets in the cine camera world, and right now Panasonic Micro 4/3 looks like a giant question mark...
 
yeah im not mocking the DVX200 just the absence of Panny in a M4/3 pro offering

And there's a lot of incongruencies there as I see it - BetaSP as I understand wasn't as accessible in a number of ways in terms of cost, workflow, size, additional hardware/accessory requirements, etc. The DVX was more than a convenient fixed lens and also more than 24p as I recall, with very different market dynamics.

Anyway DVX200 is great for what it is, and Panasonic isn't for what is missing in their line-up... thats all
 
My question for those not happy with the DVX200 because of the lens issues (as theDingo, Filmguy, McBob, and others have stated it) and wanting a true AF200, what if Panasonic released a P2/microP2/expressP2 recorder with all (or most) of the AVC-Ultra codecs that attached to the GH4 (and eventual GH5) the same way the YAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!! does? Bonus points if it has XLR ports as well?

I'm asking this because while I understand your argument, I think from Panasonic's perspective, the DVX200 would have cannibalized way too many potential AF200 sales... which is already competing in a fairly saturated space to begin with. Having such a great camera as the GH4 doesn't help. Would such a gizmo (which would need to either be self powered, or pull power from the GHx, unlike the externally powered YAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!) + the GHx be an effective alternative to an AF200 for you?

Hey, it's NAB... the reps are going to be easily accessible for a couple more days. This might be a nice idea to give them.
 
There will not be footage for months. We've been down this road -- the DVX100 followed almost the identical same development cycle, introduced at NAB in April, hit the store shelves in October. This DVX200 is following the same cycle, and based on that cycle, you will not see footage until probably July/August at the EARLIEST.

I acknowledge that folks want to see footage. But I'm telling you it is a physical impossibility. The first partly-working prototype won't be out of the labs until June or July. That's how the development cycle goes. As I said before, you can't get a baby in one month by throwing nine women at the problem! :)

I Know Barry... I was just wishing... I waited with baited breath for the DVX100A when it was released... We just like to wish... stop stomping on my dreams.. LOL
 
Hey, it's NAB... the reps are going to be easily accessible for a couple more days. This might be a nice idea to give them.

The floor show ended an hour ago. :) Chances are, everyone's breaking down the booths and displays as we speak, and are booked on flights tonight.
 
Barry, I don't think anyone is thinking that the DVX200 is a bad idea, but rather it's not the camera that we are looking for from Panasonic.

Many of us have bought into the Micro 4/3 lens format, and may have spent a few thousand or more on our m4/3 lens collections believing that Panasonic was going to firmly embrace this new standard.

The AF100 was a fantastic first start in bringing m4/3 into the cine world, and many of us expected Panasonic would keep upping the ante with better Micro 4/3 cine cameras down the road.

But it appears that Panasonic was scared off by the competition from Sony and Canon that popped up soon after the introduction of the AF100, so they sat on their hands for the past four years.

Yes, the GH3 and GH4 has helped to restore our faith in the Micro 4/3 format, but will Panasonic ever make another cine camera with a m4/3 lens mount ?

...So at this point in time I am asking myself "Should I invest in any more Micro 4/3 lenses, or should I move on to another cine camera/lens format ?"

Will Panasonic ever come back to producing a Micro 4/3 cine camera ?

Blackmagic, Canon, or Sony look like they are sure bets in the cine camera world, and right now Panasonic Micro 4/3 looks like a giant question mark...
Pretty much all of this!
 
I am humbled and honored that Panasonic has come out with my camera design. I posted it in 2008, so the AG-DVX200 must be seven years in the making. Too bad they weren't able to work in global shutter.
 
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I agree with TheDingo.
I don't think people are knocking the DVX200 per se, Barry. It will probably be a great events camera.
They're probably just venting out of frustration or disappointment at the lack of an AF100 successor.
And, like TheDingo said; a lot of us are invested in the MFTs system.
Where do we go from here???
The GH4 has got some real 'street cred', but many do not want to shoot on a stills camera.
Coming from a product development background; I'm astounded that Panny just didn't simply remove the the lens and develop a companion model to the DVX200.
They would have gotten 2 different models for little more than the R & D cost of developing one.
In the Biz, that's what you call "a gimme". A 'no-brainer'.
There must be a market for relatively low cost inter-changable lens cine-cameras. Canon, JVC, BMD and Sony all have something to offer there.
Funny, it almost seems like JVC and BMD knew Panasonic was going leave a vacuum in this segment...
 
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Okay, been thinking about this a bit...

You may be right, but I don't think the comparison suits. While 2/3" sensors are bigger, it's still a far cry from any large sensor look, which was mostly out of the reach for the masses. The DVX is closer to it than either are to S35. That genie is out of the bottle now and I don't know if it's ever going back.

That said, it'll be an extremely useful camera for many. A lot of my work would benefit greatly from it. I think it'll be somewhat like the C300 where everyone poo poos it, and then ends up owning/renting one.

It's very practical, just not as sexy and fun as a large sensor interchangeable lens camera. I think that's the source of the disappointment. We're irrational tech nerds after all :smile:
 
Not sure simply updating a previous product (DVX or HVX) is "revolutionary"...as the tease was from Pana. Perhaps there's an AF update coming later..if they didn't get scared away from that segment.
 
Panasonic will probably sell a lot of these cameras for the very reason many of us don't want one. It's simple to operate.. perfect for news, reality, sports etc. Actually, if the picture is what I've always expected from panasonic (owned a DVX100, 100A, HPX500, HVX200, HPX250 and an AF100) I might get one anyway. Sure I have a bunch of MFT adapted and proprietary lenses, but I also have two Pocket cameras to use them on. For documentaries there is an attraction for a camera that starts working right out of the bag.

It strikes me that JVC is the loser here, not Panasonic. JVC came out of the box with what truly could have been an AF100 replacement, and major competition for the Ursa Mini. It uses almost any lens you might have because of the active MFT mount and the S35 sensor and the mapping feature (and they're giving away EF Speedboosters too) - it's ingenious!

Sadly they didn't give it the dynamic range, 10 bit or the codecs that pros want these days. They cheaped out at the last minute. If it was just a grand more, $5000, with those features it would be all anyone would be talking about right now.

Interesting post just came in above me... The article claims the rumor is 99% possibly true. If it is a cine camera, it makes me wonder why they wouldn't have hinted at NAB.
 
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I was on an NDA on this for a while...this is the one they showed us and our reaction is that it should be blue...Panasonic blue and if not then black. I was surprised when we got to the both and saw it was still red...it's not firm that it will stay that way...pricing info: they said it would be under $5000....and shipping in the fall.

Jim Martin
I actually really like the red color on the back. Hope they stick with it!

The more I think about the DVX200, the more I like it. Now we wait for final pricing and image quality tests.

Oh, does anyone know if it would fit inside a Pelican Storm IM2500 case?
 
Many of us have bought into the Micro 4/3 lens format, and may have spent a few thousand or more on our m4/3 lens collections believing that Panasonic was going to firmly embrace this new standard.

The AF100 was a fantastic first start in bringing m4/3 into the cine world, and many of us expected Panasonic would keep upping the ante with better Micro 4/3 cine cameras down the road....

Yes, the GH3 and GH4 has helped to restore our faith in the Micro 4/3 format, but will Panasonic ever make another cine camera with a m4/3 lens mount ?

...So at this point in time I am asking myself "Should I invest in any more Micro 4/3 lenses, or should I move on to another cine camera/lens format ?"

Will Panasonic ever come back to producing a Micro 4/3 cine camera ? ...
I would think that the trendline here is for GH5 in 2016 with a different type of an YAGH unit (perhaps, a piggyback type) and with a HDMI 2.0a out for the external recorder (which are dropping in price, as we speak).

... Funny, it almost seems like JVC and BMD knew Panasonic was going leave a vacuum in this segment...
Well, JVC had better known about Panasonic! (what, with them being the same company for ages).

The rest I've commented on. IMO, there are no secrets among the Japanese conglomerates, who control the photo-video world.
 
I really hope someone with connection with Panasonic to rely a message to them to make 2 colour version of DVX200; Red and Black. Red is striking but just not my colour.
 
For sure the rep most likely made a mistake.

With that said, for a card like this, it could be possible to record 10 bit 422 with an AVC Intra based codec with a bit rate of 600Mbs for 4K 60p files.
90MB/s write speed:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._sdsdxp_128g_a46_128gb_extreme_pro_uhs_i.html

Even if that card wont be fully reliable, than something like this should work.
250MB/s write speed.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...pb_064g_a46_64gb_extreme_pro_sdxc_uhs_ii.html

Or this:
260MB/s write speed
http://www.amazon.com/Lexar-Profess...F8&qid=1429260470&sr=1-5&keywords=lexar+2000x

The Sony Z100 for example records to 600Mbps files. Have anyone here who used the Z100 tried using one of those SD cards to record 4K 60p files at the 600Mbps setting?
 
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