AFTER CLASS - snodart & Tim Young

Nice bokeh at the beginning shot. Nice colors. Good composition when the kid is sitting down. I like the teachers's sniff. Great kid acting!!!! Wish the conflict was about the kid and less about the teacher's principles, though after watching the short till the end, it makes sense that it's all about him. Interesting music choice, Amazing Grace. Good reaction of the girl when she hears the door opening.

Man. What a great little film. A little precious window into the life of a kid. Excellent choice for closing music. Loved it. Put a smile on my face. David's lines were just a little bit too forced at times, but the kid's reactions were absolutely perfect.
 
thanks for the comments guys. it's especially nice to hear the good comments regarding Jacob, who played the role of Eric. he's a friend of our family. we've been talking about putting him in one of our shorts since we started doing this a couple of years ago, so when we started to talk about a story that included a 13 year old boy, we naturally thought of him. he had no previous experience (or interest, as far as i know) in acting. he's a great kid and mature beyond his 13 years, which was what gave us the sense that he might have some natural ability. we had no idea if he would really be interested in doing it, but we went ahead and asked and were really excited when he agreed. he showed up, was patient with us scrambling around changing setups, listened to what we had in mind as far as who his character was, and did a great job of bringing him to life. a few people have said that dave's dialogue seems to be a bit too drawn out and repetitive, which i think is a totally fair criticism. we'll talk a bit more about that later, but i think one of the reasons for that might be that we weren't sure how well dialogue would work with jacob. while writing the script, we tried some dialogue with more interaction between the teacher and eric, but didn't want to overwhelm jake. we also came to feel that the character we had in mind for eric probably wouldn't say much in response to this teacher, and we liked how the story came to be as much about who the teacher is as about who eric is. we weren't initially planning on doing a scene between eric and his sister, but after we shot it, we were pleasantly surprised with how natural it felt coming from jake, and almost wished we had written him more dialogue.

we also have to give a lot of credit to dave for working with jake. he did a great job of making him feel comfortable (or uncomfortable?) and talking him through the scene. justin has some BTS clips i think he's planning on posting at some point of dave motivating jake that are pretty funny.

anyway, i'll pass on your comments to Jacob. i know he'll be excited about it. and we'll respond to more of the comments soon. thanks again for taking the time to watch, and especially for the constructive criticism. we're having a lot of fun doing these shorts, and want to improve, so we especially appreciate the comments regarding what you guys thought we could have done better.
 
Kid was believable. Concannon was believable. I'm not sure about the significance of the story but it was entertaining at best.
 
Very nice work guys. I love how you let Concannon role with that part. He did a really fantastic job, I thought.

I expected nothing short of amazing cinematography, and got it. Though I think on the DVD, you should make it an easter egg hunt to count how many china balls people can spot. I saw 3, I think. :) We got some in our film too :)

But the elements all served to support Concannon and the kid nicely, so that my focus was on them and the story. Very, very well done.

I don't know what to pick at, really. At first, I thought Dave's performance was going to be over the top, but it immediately became apparent that that is who that guy is. And it felt completely believable. He did nice physical work in this too, with the tension in his body and shoulders. I've seen the guy around these parts, but to me, this stands out so far as his best performance in the fest.
 
Cool stuff once again from you guys. This was in the top of the fest. Everything seemed to flow perfectly. The acting was top notch, compositions were great.

Awesome job guys.
 
Mark Harris said:
Though I think on the DVD, you should make it an easter egg hunt to count how many china balls people can spot. I saw 3, I think. :) We got some in our film too :)
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thanks for the comments, mark! as far as the china balls go, we did realize that they were in the shot. we shot for a total of 3 days, and the first day i think we shimmed the pictures a bit on one side so they didn't reflect the china balls. the second day we had camera problems and didn't get any usable footage. the first day's footage ended up being too dark (it was shot when we only had one china ball, and it was the small one). so basically we had to do everything again on the third day, and we did notice the reflection and made an (admittedly small) attempt to get rid of it, but it became a matter of keeping things moving forward. i would like to go back and get rid of it, but time was tight and we had to keep going.
 
This was a nice and simple piece that was done well. I liked the cinematography, and the use of DoF. Great job by the kid actors – the boy did a good job with his expressions. Even though he did not have very many lines, his face communicated well. The story was a bit lacking for me in that even though it was not a voice over piece it felt like one, as the majority of the film was a monologue. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, just that the monologue did not develop or have an arc to it at all, so it just felt like a teacher ranting. If there was more interaction with the boy, and the boys struggle was played out more, I think this would have made it a stronger work.
 
mark, did you guys find any tricks to getting rid of the reflections? i don't know what i'm talking about here really, but i've read something about using polarized filters to get rid of car windshield reflections. not sure if that would negatively impact the look though. i'm guessing you just have to avoid reflections with positioning. that's unfortunate, though, because i'd rather just let the actor have the freedom to move where he or she wanted.

i thought katrina was excellent by the way. i'll post more in your thread. the actor you're referring to, the one in glasses, gave one of the best performances in the fest.
 
gooood stuff. the lighting was pretty near perfection -- in fact there are hardly any technical flaws to the non-technical viewer --- me.
the acting indeed was very fine, and what cute little girl.
agreed that the repeated line does stand out a bit -- but minor. you've got quite the look there snodart. i'm envious.
and yes, i would like to see more of the story too.

thanks
evan
 
Tim Young said:
i'm guessing you just have to avoid reflections with positioning. that's unfortunate, though, because i'd rather just let the actor have the freedom to move where he or she wanted.
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Yeah, we just did it through positioning. It's really only an issue in the CU shots, in which the actor is likely to move less anyway.
 
abraham said:
gooood stuff. the lighting was pretty near perfection -- in fact there are hardly any technical flaws to the non-technical viewer --- me.
the acting indeed was very fine, and what cute little girl.
agreed that the repeated line does stand out a bit -- but minor. you've got quite the look there snodart. i'm envious. and yes, i would like to see more of the story too.
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thanks for the comments, evan. we're big fans of el matador films, so it means a lot that you liked it. the repeated line was intentional, and it was meant to convey that the teacher couldn't think of anything else to say. we saw him as someone who didn't have a full grasp on his own beliefs, and thought that he would be a guy who would just be regurgitating things he had been taught and accepted. we thought it would be fitting if he repeated a line that sounded as if he had heard it from someone else. he's not someone who can sit down and calmly explain to a kid why he thinks it's important to attend chapel because he really doesn't know himself. inside he may even know that the kid's got a better grasp on life than he does, and that makes the kid a threat to him. anyway i think dave's pause at the end of the line hints to the fact that he's realizing that he just repeated himself. we also talked about having him stop halfway through the line, which may have worked better. but i think the bottom line is that it ended up too distracting to make the point we wanted, which is what i'm hearing from these posts, and why i love getting feedback like this. thanks!
 
Again great work by Mr. Concannon.

I liked the young lead a lot as well. His detached apathy was so convincing.
 
Nice colour grading choices. I was digging the patina .

Directing kept it simple and stayed away from flashy “trying to impress” theatrics.
Framing was odd in a couple shots (when the teacher first enters the room for example). Last shot was sumptuous – nice framing, pace, composition, and movement. Unfortunately, it was wasted on a facile story.

Initially, it was a promising intro with the young girl. Then it devolved into a typical caricature and a hip take on Religious hypocrisy. Coming at the script from a layman’s viewpoint, it seemed like a facile and vacuous portrayal of the intolerance spouted by the supposedly religious.

My notes while watching the flick were “overly simplistic” and “typically hip”. As a film goer I don’t like to be preached to, whether it be philosophy or religion. The irony is by buying into such a typical portrayal of the theme involved you’re buying into the same intolerance your preaching against. At the very least, if you intend on making a short polemic, then mix it up, and show us a non-stereotypical character that is consistent with your goals.

Naturalistic acting from the kids. Nicely done. IMHO (see the IMHO don’t throw tomatoes please), Concannon overacted to the point of caricature. I don’t know why you went for a typical stereotype in a serious drama, but it didn’t serve the script convincingly.

Overall, I probably would have enjoyed your film more if I turned off the sound and just watched the cinematography and directing. Coming from a neutral viewpoint (on religious matters) the films script and characters were too didactic for my taste. Others mileage may vary.


:beer:
 
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Thanks for the great feedback everybody. Feedback is the best part about these fests! Many of the comments made thus far are things that came up at one point or another during the process of making After Class. It makes me feel pretty good to know that we at least were aware of some of the mentioned items. Now, that isn't to say that they were handled correctly, but I feel pretty good knowing that we are getting to a point where we are able to realized that there is something for which a decision needs to be made. (I'm not sure if that makes any sense...)

As for the reflections of the China balls. They are there. Tim and I knew that it would be brought up around here of course :) My take on it is that if it does not distract and if it goes unnoticed by the average viewer, then no harm done. Perhaps without the info and pics of the China balls, it would not have been brought up (not sure). We were aware that the reflections in the eye glasses would show up, but decided to roll with it as long as it did not become distracting. My guess is that the average viewer is oblivious to the fact that the reflections are present at all and that they could easily be passed off as the natural reflections and light of the room. At any rate, we need the knowledge and tools to remove reflections, so that if they are left in for future projects.. it will have been an artistic decision and not one made out of necessity.

Tim talked a little bit about Jake (the boy). All I can say is that he is awesome. Not just the job he did with the role, but in general. GREAT kid.

The girl was my daughter. She has no problem being in front of the camera. If I remember right, we only needed two or three takes for their dialog scene and two takes for the exit scene at the end. They were both awesome and I think we had a little luck on our side that they both seem to do well at acting.

The other item mentioned was the teacher's dialog. We spent a great deal of time working over the dialog for this character. Our intent was to tell as much about the character as we could though the dialog... without spoon feeding the viewer with details. The idea was to give enough info via dialog and Dave's performance so that the viewer could assemble their own variation of what the teacher's background and childhood experiences might have been. Tim mentioned the repeat of the line, "God has given you and entire lifetime" and our intent with that. I do think that it would have worked better if we had Dave cut himself off halfway through the line to better show his frustration.

As for the story. Like Cache, we had a pretty good idea that the story would feel a little bland to some. Tim and I were okay with that from the start. Our goal was to give the story the feeling of a short story (as in a literary work) more so than the feeling of a short film. I (and I know Tim's take is similar) have always had a great appreciation for short stories (esp Hemingway) and the way that they leave so much out and almost force the reader to fill in the gaps and formulate much of it. So instead of giving the viewer "this is a man who probably didn't have a great childhood and was told what his beliefs should be... who now isn't sure why he believes what he believes.... and is now threatened by the free spirit of the child.. etc", we wanted to just give some clues as to what the situation might be (even if the viewers interpretation wasn't exactly what we had in mind). In theory, this might allow the viewer to better match the story and situation with their own past experiences. I know that might sound like a stretch, but I'm a believer. That's not to say that we accomplished our goal, but it was our goal all the same. :)

THANK YOU for the feedback. It is truly appreciated.
 
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oh man! what a great film. top 2 for me, maybe top 1. I'm just not sure yet, and I haven't seen them all yet, so . . .

I would have paid money to see you rack focus from the desk to the kid right after the teacher smashed the egg (4:25). how's that for nit-picky? actually, I couldn't see any room or need for improvement anywhere.
:)
seriously, you're on the short list for my vote. what else can I say? your style / color pallette was dead on, and appropriate for your story. everything worked for me.

- and I think you ripped a page out of my childhood! I went to private schools until I was about 11 years old. you must have been writing from experience.

perfect moment in time for the six-minute time-frame. I love to write short stories like this, just focusing on short time periods. great job of fitting the size of the story to the length of the film.

that's all.
 
Thanks for your input D_and_G.

D_and_G said:
Initially, it was a promising intro with the young girl. Then it devolved into a typical caricature and a hip take on Religious hypocrisy. Coming at the script from a layman’s viewpoint, it seemed like a facile and vacuous portrayal of the intolerance spouted by the supposedly religious.
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It was not our goal to provide a take on religious hypocrisy. Especially not along the lines of an agumentative proposal. The most basic them in our minds was not a statement... but rather a question, can organized religion and spirituality truly exist together. Can they? I have no idea... but it is an intersting thing to ponder (to me anyway). We tried to make our focus more on the characters and their assumed, and portrayed, experiences. Really we were just hoping to inspire thought. It seems that your interpertation was that the story was a one-sided means to make a statement against religious hypocrisy. This is a valid interpertation, however it was not our intention.

D_and_G said:
My notes while watching the flick were “overly simplistic” and “typically hip”. As a film goer I don’t like to be preached to, whether it be philosophy or religion. The irony is by buying into such a typical portrayal of the theme involved you’re buying into the same intolerance your preaching against. At the very least, if you intend on making a short polemic, then mix it up, and show us a non-stereotypical character that is consistent with your goals.
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I too do not like to be "preached" to when viewing a film (esp in the case of a documentary). And I think that was the challenge in this story; to use the characters (NOT stereotypes or groups) to provoke thought. Your take is certainly valid, but it does suggest that we failed in using the story as a tool (at least in your specidif viewing experience). Again, this was not intended to be a polemic short. Now, that isn't to say that it did not came across that way to some (as it did with you).
D_and_G said:
The irony is by buying into such a typical portrayal of the theme involved you’re buying into the same intolerance your preaching against.
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I'm not sure how to take this statement. Unless it is just a simple misuse of pronouns, it sure sounds like you are making some pretty big assumptions as to my (or Tim's) character and personal beliefs. Either way, thanks for the comments.

Now I'm curious as to what others thought the central theme was in the story.

EDIT: not sure what happened to the font here :huh:
 
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D_and_G said:
[f Nice colour grading choices. I was digging the patina .

Directing kept it simple and stayed away from flashy “trying to impress” theatrics.
Framing was odd in a couple shots (when the teacher first enters the room for example). Last shot was sumptuous – nice framing, pace, composition, and movement. Unfortunately, it was wasted on a facile story.

Initially, it was a promising intro with the young girl. Then it devolved into a typical caricature and a hip take on Religious hypocrisy. Coming at the script from a layman’s viewpoint, it seemed like a facile and vacuous portrayal of the intolerance spouted by the supposedly religious.

My notes while watching the flick were “overly simplistic” and “typically hip”. As a film goer I don’t like to be preached to, whether it be philosophy or religion. The irony is by buying into such a typical portrayal of the theme involved you’re buying into the same intolerance your preaching against. At the very least, if you intend on making a short polemic, then mix it up, and show us a non-stereotypical character that is consistent with your goals.

Naturalistic acting from the kids. Nicely done. IMHO (see the IMHO don’t throw tomatoes please), Concannon overacted to the point of caricature. I don’t know why you went for a typical stereotype in a serious drama, but it didn’t serve the script convincingly.

Overall, I probably would have enjoyed your film more if I turned off the sound and just watched the cinematography and directing. Coming from a neutral viewpoint (on religious matters) the films script and characters were too didactic for my taste. Others mileage may vary.


:beer:[/font]
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Very interesting comments. My take on the whole thing is along the lines of what Justin has stated before in this thread. I myself found this a very interesting story to tell. "Overacting" as you put it..mmm...sounds like I didn't do my job here, but I can tell you what I drew from. I myself went to school in an environment very similar to this and my own personal experience with the authority figures there were troubling. Not to say that this is indicative of all people who choose this for a profession but a good deal of the interaction between student and teacher was filled with fear and frustration. When I went to school, teachers stilled yelled at their students and physical punishment was not out of place. I remember the punishment for running down the halls was suspension....so missing chapel is a very very big deal. When looking from the perspective that this man is having everything that he has worked for in his life threatened by a child who might have been very similar to him growing up and perhaps brings out his own questions of faith. I don't believe a breakdown is too far off the mark.

Some of your comments sounded a little angry, but It is wonderful to get them and I thank you for your personal honesty.
 
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