AF100 LCD screen
- Thread starter PaPa
- Start date
EidolonFilms
Well-known member
I am starting to notice the green tint in certain situations. Sitting on my couch just looking through menus, I noticed my white wall looked slightly green in the LCD, whereas in the EVF it was white. This was under tungsten lighting with tungsten preset.
It's not irrelevant. Things like touchscreen, ETC, stills, etc. are irrelevant and are fine to leave out because they aren't that important to shooting video. A proper looking LCD screen on a "professional" camera is important though. I'm not saying the LCD screen needs to be a perfect screen, but we should be allowed some control of how it looks and if it has a green hue or tint to it as the default we should be able to adjust that. I expect at least a somewhat accurate representation in the LCD on a "professional" camera.
And both cameras say "Panasonic" on them. This "two separate companies" thing is Panasonic making excuses for why they can't do something right. There's not many (or really any other things) about the AF100 that I'd say NEED to be changed. I can deal with the noise and find the right settings. I can double check that VFR mode isn't on when I want to shoot 24fps and record sound. But the LCD needs to be right. We shouldn't be forced to use an external monitor all the time just to make sure we're getting a proper image.
Actually, most professional photographers I know check shots on a large, calibrated screen wherever possible, because on-camera LCD's are inadequate even as a rough guide. Some studio photographers shoot tethered to the computer for that reason, and a lot of people (myself included) try to look at least at the first few test shots on a big calibrated screen if the work is colour or exposure critical. It is not uncommon to have art directors looking at the shots on a calibrated monitor as they are taken, too.
So even though stills camera LCDs may be better, they are rarely relied up in my experience- the main use is checking for egregious mistakes and looking at the histograms.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Have you looked through the LCD of an AF100? It presents a quite accurate representation. Not just "somewhat" accurate, but quite accurate. Not perfect, but really quite good.
That may be your opinion, but it doesn't accurately reflect the reality of the situation.
I would agree that it would be ideal if the LCD was perfectly color accurate. It'd also be ideal if the GH2's HDMI output a real 59.94i signal that could be recorded. It'd be even more ideal if the GH2 had a frickin' headphone jack. But it doesn't. So I work around it.
The LCD on the AF100 is the best they've ever put on a camcorder. It isn't perfect and it won't be perfect, but it's way more than adequate for the task. If you've got a case of a defective product, that's one thing, but in general the LCD looks just fine. Said as a veteran of dozens of pro cameras. Look at the LCD on the HVX200; this is a massive jump up.
If it's not what you want, fine -- that's understandable, just like I'd like a headphone jack on the GH2. But to imply that it's unfit for the purpose, I don't think that's a fair characterization. It's absolutely up to the task and comparable with or better than the LCDs that we've been using for the last ten years.
Yes I'd like it better, and it'd be nice if there was a phase adjustment to balance it on the green/purple a little. But it ain't no big deal. The LCD does the job that it was intended for -- to let the shooter get an accurate idea of framing, see the displays, and get a pretty good idea of what the image looks like. I am far, far, far more annoyed by the lack of magnified focus assist. To me, that's the real disappointment. The LCD is fine.
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
Yeah, I found myself looking for the magnified FA. I've gotten quite used to that tool.
My camera showed up about an hour ago or so. The first thing I checked was the LCD. I white balanced and black balanced. It sort of looked green, but barely. Then I hit the BARS button and voila, I see the color bars look perfect. No green cast at all. So I use the bars to set up the screen properly as far as brightness, contrast, and color. Very minor adjustments. I went -1 on brightness and color and left contrast alone. Then back to live video. I don't think it's green at all. In fact I think it's perfect. Maybe there's just a bad batch of LCDs or something and I got lucky. Panasonic could easily fix it with a firmware update that allows color balance adjustment of the LCD. I still think that's important.
Barry, you're right that the LCD is superb, at least on my AF100. Far better than my old HVX200 LCD screen.
Barry, you're right that the LCD is superb, at least on my AF100. Far better than my old HVX200 LCD screen.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Those were my settings on the LCD, Mike.
Except I used a CTB filter to do a ghetto blue gun look as I adjusted the controls.
As far as 1:1, I plugged in my new Cineroid EVF via the HDMI out and now have that mapped to a hot key and it works great.
Except I used a CTB filter to do a ghetto blue gun look as I adjusted the controls.
As far as 1:1, I plugged in my new Cineroid EVF via the HDMI out and now have that mapped to a hot key and it works great.
are the dim lights youre using CFL's? If so that explains the green spike.
Also.... you guys bought the VERY FIRST batch of a brand new camera line. like some of you probably have serial numbers in the double digits... ya know? its not gonna be flawless out of the gate.
Paul Vicente
Well-known member
Very good point. So maybe they put in a proc amp between the 4/3 chip and the lcd to screw up the color? This is a very stange issue.
Mark Smith
Veteran
I find this discussion kind of humorous. My LCD screen has a green bias too. I see that and I also see that the WB is correct both externally through the HDSDI and in the EVF. So ok I know the LCD is a touch green and I move on.
You guys would TOTALLY SUCK as Red fanboys.... Imagine if your camera crashed when you played back clips with firmware build 16, and you had to wait 2 minutes while the friggin thing rebooted. Or you had to revert back to a previous software build on set, holding up all production, because the latest greatest software build had some flaw that was killing your day.
Red guys wore all those stupid things they had to suffer through as a badge of honor, yet around here people are griping about a slight green cast to the LCD. I kind of Yawned when first took the AF out of the box, but Ya Know, this little camera can do quite a lot. Sure I'd much prefer the grown up version of AF with P2 card recording and AVC ultra... and would have paid for it no problemo, but for less than 5K this camera offers a great deal and it all works
right out of the box including the LCD with the slight green cast.
You guys would TOTALLY SUCK as Red fanboys.... Imagine if your camera crashed when you played back clips with firmware build 16, and you had to wait 2 minutes while the friggin thing rebooted. Or you had to revert back to a previous software build on set, holding up all production, because the latest greatest software build had some flaw that was killing your day.
Red guys wore all those stupid things they had to suffer through as a badge of honor, yet around here people are griping about a slight green cast to the LCD. I kind of Yawned when first took the AF out of the box, but Ya Know, this little camera can do quite a lot. Sure I'd much prefer the grown up version of AF with P2 card recording and AVC ultra... and would have paid for it no problemo, but for less than 5K this camera offers a great deal and it all works
right out of the box including the LCD with the slight green cast.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Good point.
PaPa
Major Contributor
This thread has gone off track. at first it was a curiosity and concern, then we addressed that there is a green bias so now it's just up to panasonic to be notified of their user's concerns, which they have, and now we move on and see if there is a response in terms of a future firmware update.
Maybe this thread has served its purpose and it's time to put it to rest?
Maybe this thread has served its purpose and it's time to put it to rest?
Out of curiosity, if the green case only shows up in certain lighting conditions such as old tungsten light, wouldn't a color adjustment just ruin your color for every other lighting situation? Seems like a poor solution to the problem.
How about some sticky color gels for your LCD screen. Could be a market for them
whip it on and off when you need it 
oh and regarding professional photographers, most shoot RAW, and try not to "chimp".
How about some sticky color gels for your LCD screen. Could be a market for them
whip it on and off when you need it oh and regarding professional photographers, most shoot RAW, and try not to "chimp".
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
Maybe not. On my AF100, I notice the whole things leans to the green. My LCD and my monitor are pretty close to each other...and they both lean that way. It's not a bad thing, but I set it up next to my HVX with the same settings and did a manual white balance (details here on post number 5), and the AF100 leaned far more to the green as compared to a whiter/bluer HVX.
I'm not complaining, but as shooter said, if the bars are good maybe there is something in the chroma phase... :huh:
PaPa
Major Contributor
Yeah, that's where the conversation should really end. Panasonic knows, let's hope for an update.
It's just that when the image is very yellow/green, the lcd makes it even yellow/greener, so it's not like it only comes up when there is a yellow/green source, so it shouldnt affect everything in the image all the time, it's probably there when we are using daylight balance, but harder to see cause green/yellow isn't as apparent.
Barry_Green
Moderator
It sure as shootin' shouldn't. I tested the prepro model by setting up a calibrated professional kino flo fluorescent daylight tube, pointed the camera at a CamWhite chart (which is a precision-engineered perfectly white white-balance chart), and did a manual balance, and "CAPTURE"d a frame. Took it into PhotoShop and used the eyedropper. PhotoShop reported a perfect gray, with RGB of 150/150/150.
I then took down the Kino and set up a B&M tungsten fresnel, then did another manual white balance to the tungsten light, and captured a frame. The results were an almost absolutely perfect gray, it was (IIRC) 151/150/149 or something like that. Close enough to perfect that I would figure it's within whatever margin of error there would be for sampling whichever random pixel I picked.
So, Jim -- try that. Remove the monitors from the equation and instead see what your system is delivering. It should be spot-on. White should be white with no cast to it at all (unless you've adjusted the chroma phase away from zero).
On the HVX -- do you have an original or an A? The 200A was much more color-accurate than the original.
Pietro Impagliazzo
Well-known member
Ironic since the Consumer is offering more solutions than the actual Solutions is.
Would that be so hard to have a firmware option to correct a color cast on the LCD? Since most of us don't know the internal functioning of the camera that's something for Panasonic to comment on.
And IMO it starts becoming relevant when they share the same sensor size standard and have the same name for the consumers.
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Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
No "A" in my HVX.
The problem doesn't show up in the whites, it shows up in yellows and browns. And really it isn't a problem for me...more like something to be aware of. I pointed out in my HVX/AF100 thread that I noticed it because of the comparison between the 2 cameras. I need to be able to cut the two together. Honestly, the AF not only looks better to me subjectively, but it looks closer to what my aging eyes see as well. And, with a bit of tweaking in the CT and Chroma Phase, it should cut together fine.
All that being said, I still haven't even pulled any footage to look at on the computer. I'm too busy comparing the relative DOF between the two cameras and dragging my wife to the monitors saying "Look honey, see how that's just a little soft compared to the HVX! Isn't that cool!"