Paul Vicente
Well-known member
Panasonic should comment on this issue. This is no good. I would depend on the lcd to provide some degree of color confidence during recording.
AF100 LCD screen
- Thread starter PaPa
- Start date
Panasonic should comment on this issue. This is no good. I would depend on the lcd to provide some degree of color confidence during recording.
Dino
Veteran
I agree that the LCD is yellow/green, but so are the Panasonic 1700 series monitors. Our Flanders Scientific 17" monitor is calibrated to REC 709 and looks positively magenta compared to Panasonic 1700's. Funny part is that both Panasonic and Flanders use the same LG LCD panels for 17" monitors.
G
Guest
Guest
Just so this thread doesn't die. Let's keep that thread alive since it's a serious issue for a lot of us, and so new potential buyers are made aware of such problems when they come visit dvxuser to check what others have to say about the AF100.
I'm also worried that Panasonic hasn't responded officially to this yet. These are things that keep me from buying a new AF100. The faster this is fixed the more confident I will be, and I believe others too. A firmware update seems required.
I'm also worried that Panasonic hasn't responded officially to this yet. These are things that keep me from buying a new AF100. The faster this is fixed the more confident I will be, and I believe others too. A firmware update seems required.
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
I took a closer look today and there is a difference between the LCD and VF but I wouldn't call it just greener. They differ in colour balance.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Panasonic knows about the thread. They're going to see if what they're shipping qualifies as acceptable and within spec. Keep in mind that in the manual they've already addressed it (on page 29 of volume 1 of the owner's manual):
In other words, the LCD on the camera is not some reference-spec broadcast-caliber monitor. It's an on-camera LCD, useful for framing/composition, and vaguely accurate for color. That's the way on-camera LCDs have always been. It's not warranted to be absolutely accurate.
Obviously if it's way out of whack, that'd be a repair issue. But if it's just mildly a tiny bit greenish, then that's nothing to be concerned about and is par for the course -- as Jeff said, Panasonic monitors have always been considered to have a little bit of green in them.
In other words, the LCD on the camera is not some reference-spec broadcast-caliber monitor. It's an on-camera LCD, useful for framing/composition, and vaguely accurate for color. That's the way on-camera LCDs have always been. It's not warranted to be absolutely accurate.
Obviously if it's way out of whack, that'd be a repair issue. But if it's just mildly a tiny bit greenish, then that's nothing to be concerned about and is par for the course -- as Jeff said, Panasonic monitors have always been considered to have a little bit of green in them.
Really? I don't find that there is a green bias in my 5D2 & T2i LCDs. I guess it doesn't need to be a reference quality broadcast monitor, but I am expecting it to be pretty darn accurate for $5K. ....at least as good as my 5DII & T2i. I really, really, really want an AF100, but if that's Panasonic's position (Hey, if you want to see what it really looks like, check it out on another monitor.) that's pret' near a deal breaker. I don't know if this is too much to expect, but I need and accurate representation of the image it is capturing from the monitor on camera. I'm sorry, but this is kind of disconcerting. I want this cam pretty bad, but I don't have a project right now, it's probably best to wait. But I was hoping to jump in and learn this stuff on a proper camera soon.
Dino
Veteran
We have Sony DSR-450WS DVCAM cameras that have a VERY magenta side LCD display, to the point where I don't use it, leaving it in black with TC and audio level display only.
Our HPX170 is a more neutral LCD, albeit lousy for off axis and lacking in chroma and soft. The AF100 LCD is fantastic resolution wise and off-axis is amazing, but flesh does look yellow.
Our HPX170 is a more neutral LCD, albeit lousy for off axis and lacking in chroma and soft. The AF100 LCD is fantastic resolution wise and off-axis is amazing, but flesh does look yellow.
heavyG
Underwater Giraffe Member
I don't want to diminish what people are experiencing with the greenish cast on their LCD - but it really is just for framing and camera info. Any critical colour decisions should be made with a separate properly calibrated broadcast monitor.
Before you jump on me about 'Run and gun' and shooting at events / weddings where you don't have the luxury of a video village… You're supposed to be a professional (you're getting paid right?) and you should know what you see in the lcd will look like once you get it to the edit suite. As an owner operator you should know your equipment inside and out.
Or maybe I just think different after years of watching a monitor hooked up to a video tap on ARRI's and Panavision cams that had terrible colour, were dark, and flickered/strobed when the cam was running.
As for it being a camera that costs $5k - That may be a lot of change for many here; but I just came from a production meeting where these were discussed as though they are disposable.
Before you jump on me about 'Run and gun' and shooting at events / weddings where you don't have the luxury of a video village… You're supposed to be a professional (you're getting paid right?) and you should know what you see in the lcd will look like once you get it to the edit suite. As an owner operator you should know your equipment inside and out.
Or maybe I just think different after years of watching a monitor hooked up to a video tap on ARRI's and Panavision cams that had terrible colour, were dark, and flickered/strobed when the cam was running.
As for it being a camera that costs $5k - That may be a lot of change for many here; but I just came from a production meeting where these were discussed as though they are disposable.
EidolonFilms
Well-known member
I 2nd that the AF100 monitor has a great resolution and off axis. I didn't notice it being particularly green, but it is slightly different than the EVF, and I would say more yellowish than green.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Panasonic will have to answer for themselves. I just quoted the only statement I found in the manual.
I don't know the answer, so I'm asking -- do you have much experience with the typical broadcast camera/production world? If not, it may be just an expectation thing. I don't know any shooter who would rely on what the on-camera LCD is showing them, as an accurate representation of the image. If it IS an accurate representation, then hey, that's a bonus, but I don't know any who would trust an on-camera LCD for any sort of accuracy. Heck, even on the DVX you couldn't even really trust the LCD for framing, because it was an overscanning display! It wasn't until the DVX100B that they finally started putting underscanning LCDs on their cameras (and the same applies to Canon and JVC and Sony of course).
The big companies do make reference-caliber viewfinders for their 2/3" cameras, but those cost $8,400 or even $11,000+. The LCD on-camera is for framing and for menus and for a ballpark picture. It isn't a reference-caliber display.
I'm not disagreeing with you that we shouldn't want a picture-perfect color-accurate display. I'd love to have it. But I'm saying that it just doesn't work that way. There's no guarantee from any of the manufacturers that their display will be 100% absolutely perfectly accurate. That's what external production monitors are for.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Yep. +1.
Jim Brennan
VHS Member Old Skool
I don't expect reference quality, but the stills that PaPa is putting up show a pretty significant difference. Far greater than in any camera I have used (a limited amount admittedly). If I manually white balanced and got that result in a run and gun situation I would think there was something seriously wrong with the camera, or I would start throwing up minus green on all the lights..
Just my .02 with my own AF-100 only 24 hours from delivery.
Just my .02 with my own AF-100 only 24 hours from delivery.
PaPa
Major Contributor
Im not trying to suggest that they need to fix the monitors, not at all. Maybe it's just my ignorance of what's involved from an engineering stand point, but I don't see why offering the user color balance options in the lcd setup should have been omited.
Brightness is there, contrast, saturation.. How about some color balance in the RGB? Am i being too critical? I think that's a fairly modest recommendation.
Brightness is there, contrast, saturation.. How about some color balance in the RGB? Am i being too critical? I think that's a fairly modest recommendation.
Nektonic
Veteran
Jim, you sum it up perfectly. I understand an on-camera LCD is not going to be perfect, but this green cast on the AF100's LCD seems a bit too far off colorwise is all.
Of course every camera is different and has little quirks we have to get used to when shooting in various situations. I think it is not that people are going to be returning their AF100's because of this, just that is is a bit surprising that the LCD has that much of a yellow/green cast to it. That is how I feel anyways.
Barry_Green
Moderator
And I would love to have it as well. Just saying that they've never done it. Not in the 170, not in the 150, not in the 80 or 40, not in the 200, not in the 100. They've never had it.
I vote that we should always have more control, of course. I still want a 12-pole color matrix in the camera, fer cryin' out loud.
But with this LCD thing... I'd have to dig up my 150 and put it next to a production AF100 to see how different they are. Maybe the AF100's a lot different, maybe it's not and nobody complained? Maybe it's just that this is the first time that the LCD on a Panasonic camera hasn't SUCKED, so now people are finding other things to be disappointed in? :evil:
Barry_Green
Moderator
It may indeed be too far off, I don't know. That's why I referred Panasonic to the thread, so they could evaluate it on their production units and find out if they consider what they've got to be within spec or not.
Steve Kahn
Well-known member
Anyone have opinions on going with a large HDTV for on set display? I know it's not a field option but if one has power why not get a 32" display and calibrate with a spyder?
I think I may do this. I remember having to rotoscope a whole scene because the dp didn't clean the lens. Seems a large monitor would catch these kind of things well.
I think I may do this. I remember having to rotoscope a whole scene because the dp didn't clean the lens. Seems a large monitor would catch these kind of things well.
Nektonic
Veteran
Thanks for getting in touch with them Barry. I'm still excited about purchasing an AF100 soon. Hopefully I didn't come off as too much of a complainer. Other than the green color bias, I hear the peaking and focus assist functions are great on the new LCD. I'm excited for those features, as I've lived with the XHA1's somewhat less than perfect peaking assist functions for several years, and more recently the T2i which has just about diddly squat for focusing assist functions.
I've done this in the past with my DVX100, but using a CRT TV as the monitor. I may do this when needed until I buy a second on-camera monitor to mount on the camera. Even if it is not as perfect as a reference quality monitor, it can still be helpful in addition to a camera's LCD/viewfinder.
So why end with a line that diminishes their experience?
If I had just spent $5k on this camera and experienced this kind of shift, knowing that it could be corrected on a consumer GH1, knowing that no other camera that I had owned (XL2, HVX, EX1, HV20) had this problem, why would I not be upset?
Is this a joke? My HVX lcd wasn't perfect...it was low res, but at least I could focus with it.
I understand you guys are trying to bring perspective, but why add the cheap slaps? I'm sure you know how bad it feels to spend your hard earned then be let down by something unexpected.
I'm in the market for the camera and the colour shift problem would make me think twice.