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Good! Haha, happy to have you wit us! PM me and I want to send you some pic styles to try out.
M. Gilden
Canon DSLR Moderator
haha- you know, I was interested in trying to make my Canon match other cameras. But just trying to get more range out of the camera itself is something I sort of put on a back burner long ago.
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haha- you know, I was interested in trying to make my Canon match other cameras. But just trying to get more range out of the camera itself is something I sort of put on a back burner long ago.
Yes, I wish I had more cameras, I would love to make more matching picture styles. Sadly, I didn't have a GH2 to make a canon picture style that worked. But I do have access to a GF3, and may use that as a base. These cameras have enough variation, that matching pictures is difficult, but I would leave the picture style unlocked in order to allow users to fine tune them.
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Playing around with picture styles again. This time going for a subtle "cine" pic style based on R3 series.
Here is any early version next to standard 0,-2,-1,0
Standard vs CineR3
Here is any early version next to standard 0,-2,-1,0
Standard vs CineR3
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Picture Style A
Picture Style B
Picture Style C
Varying methods of retaining detail. Each image is compared with "Standard default". If you click on the links or images, you can see a bit closer up.
A is based on "portrait" so it has has made skin tone and blue into the more complimentary cyan/teal and orange/pink, so it has a stylized look to it by default.
C is very aggressive in preserving detail in the shadows and highlights. Especially the highlights. The assumption is that by preserving detail before the "canon video" reinterprets the sensor data, that it will force more information into the video before clipping. Now, wether it is worth while in an 8-bit format remains to be seen... which is what B is trying to avoid. B is a mainly trying to get rid of the baked in look, giving post grading options, yet preserving gradation. Black point has been slightly altered.
Next I will put these PS's on a 60D and take them out in the wild.
Despite BMC and other cameras hitting the market, compression is still a reality for most of us for the next year, or so.
I am curious to hear your thoughts on the methods used in these samples, and what you expect the results to be, and why you might use one over the other?
NOTE: the white balance is very cool in this example picture. This example is not so much to show the color accuracy, but to show extreme dynamic range in relation to midtone gradation on the girls face. Also look at the hood of the SUV, as some of the picture styles almost remove any gradation at the higher end in an attempt to retain highlight detail.
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Here are the same profiles added to another picture with better white balance. 56K WB and Kinoflo.
Same letters apply to same picture styles above.
Picture Style A
Picture Style B
Picture Style C
Picture Style D
Same letters apply to same picture styles above.
Picture Style A
Picture Style B
Picture Style C
Picture Style D
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No-body has time to read this thread to get top Page 7!
I am quite interested in all of this. My wife and son have been on vacation all summer. After 1 more week I am going to get back to image making for the fall/winter & start some projects.
I just started testing Marvel Cine about a week ago. So far I like the feel of the image out of my T4i.
I also have a 5D3, but have not opened it yet. I haven't had time, plus I am hoping that the next camera Canon announces is a video-centric camera. I am quite convined that there is a "little brother" to the 1DC in the works.
It obviously would not have 4K, etc. What I am hoping for is Canon Log Gamma, plus clean HDMI out, either compressed or uncompressed. If they did 10 bit HDMI out uncompressed with Canon Log it would be killer!
That is my hope at least. I really think taht although Canon improved the 5D3 video by quite a bit in some wasy - aliasing, moire - ir really is an all around stills camera with good video (the best on a DSLR, maybe tied with the D800.)
I've been going back to this page on Phillip Bloom's site to look through some of the styles:
http://philipbloom.net/2011/09/18/pictureprofiles/
Just little bits and pieces at a time so far. When I had my studio I had a "look Book" with all of my lighting diagrams, with sample images. I want to do something similar for video, along with differnt post processing looks in Premiere. I intend to spend more time editing than shooting going forward. Plus my memory is bad. :huh:
Best,
Michael
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Haha, true!No-body has time to read this thread to get top Page 7!
Let the killing begin. For now, I will see if I can work with my 60D and the most beautiful ten+ stops of 8bit h.264 color I can get. =)
Pbloom's site is good for finding out what's new, but good information is found else where.
That is more of an intro to the most popular picture styles. Not much research in that article. Though pbloom is a fine person, not slighting him, just the nature of popular blogging. (look at the other blogs, same same)
That would be very cool.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
Increasing the black point seems to help CineStyle reduce noise in the shadows (probably because it allows it to bypass some codec limitations). But CineStyle seems to overdo this (probably because of unrelated reasons: matching workflow for stuff coming from other formats), and it also does something similar in the highlights (leaving 18% of the codec's color space to the brightest two-thirds of a stop of light), and the result is that midtones are starving for range and gradation.
I would certainly like to investigate if a more moderate dose of this can help my picture styles keep cleaner shadows. I don't have a Canon DSLR anymore, though, or time to play with this, actually, so somebody else will have to do it. Good luck to you all!
I would certainly like to investigate if a more moderate dose of this can help my picture styles keep cleaner shadows. I don't have a Canon DSLR anymore, though, or time to play with this, actually, so somebody else will have to do it. Good luck to you all!
I created a Picturestyle, that is, as far as i see, the first one of its kind.
I called it exposure_helper and it does, what the name lets you suggest:
It helps you Exposing, Whitebalancing and Focusing your Scene, especially for video.
To keep it simple: If you do not see luma-detail in a area, then it is well exposed. If you see white or black spots, well, its over or underexposed.
Here are some Pictures, so you get an idea. Also, if you want to test it, feel free to test and give me some feedback.
Download: http://thephpjo.de/exposure_helper.pf2
Welll exposed
underexposed
overexposed
edit: here is a video demonstrating the exposure helper: <em>
I called it exposure_helper and it does, what the name lets you suggest:
It helps you Exposing, Whitebalancing and Focusing your Scene, especially for video.
To keep it simple: If you do not see luma-detail in a area, then it is well exposed. If you see white or black spots, well, its over or underexposed.
Here are some Pictures, so you get an idea. Also, if you want to test it, feel free to test and give me some feedback.
Download: http://thephpjo.de/exposure_helper.pf2
Welll exposed
underexposed
overexposed
edit: here is a video demonstrating the exposure helper: <em>
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Very cool. Definitely seems to help with seeing the clipped areas. Thanks.
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here are some pic styles to peruse....
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lsg8kt6vkhqop6j/uamZWyYhHy
Let me know if you have any issues opening using or understanding...
Folders and files:
"5D2_pf2_files" folder contains a picture style series called 'CRC' for lack of more info. They are created with video and cinema use in mind. There is a video test comparison done by the creator of this series. I'll try to find the video.
"CANON" folder contains two other useful Canon picture styles. P-Studio is a favorite for some, as it increases highlight detail.
"Flaat" is a unique series made by Samuel H. He has his own blog. It is based on the Canon Portrait ps, and so the color characteristics are the same. The skin hues are rosy and fleshy, and the blues are slightly shifted toward cyan to compliment the skin tones. Samual H created flaat to improve on skin tone, as well as increase Dynamic Range in an organic way. Grading is easier. A bit of noise in the mid tones, but not undesirably so.
http://www.similaar.com/index.html
"Lightform" is my recreation ps's of john pope's. the overall results should be indistinguishable from the originals. The styles are unlocked, so you can play around and alter to taste.
"OTHER" is were I intended to put a bunch of random picture styles. So far, I just have the SKD series. These are intended for photography. Some of them are nice, but I have not tried them all. A lot to go through.
"Sumit_Argwal" is probably the first person to try to recreate film stocks, and then have his picture styles get noticed. They are a baked in look. Not flat. Fun if you want that rich look though.
"TEST_images" are a few pictures that might help you in designing your own Picture Style. There is an intended variation with them in order to see how you picture style reacts to different exposures and white balances.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lsg8kt6vkhqop6j/uamZWyYhHy
Let me know if you have any issues opening using or understanding...
Folders and files:
"5D2_pf2_files" folder contains a picture style series called 'CRC' for lack of more info. They are created with video and cinema use in mind. There is a video test comparison done by the creator of this series. I'll try to find the video.
"CANON" folder contains two other useful Canon picture styles. P-Studio is a favorite for some, as it increases highlight detail.
"Flaat" is a unique series made by Samuel H. He has his own blog. It is based on the Canon Portrait ps, and so the color characteristics are the same. The skin hues are rosy and fleshy, and the blues are slightly shifted toward cyan to compliment the skin tones. Samual H created flaat to improve on skin tone, as well as increase Dynamic Range in an organic way. Grading is easier. A bit of noise in the mid tones, but not undesirably so.
http://www.similaar.com/index.html
"Lightform" is my recreation ps's of john pope's. the overall results should be indistinguishable from the originals. The styles are unlocked, so you can play around and alter to taste.
"OTHER" is were I intended to put a bunch of random picture styles. So far, I just have the SKD series. These are intended for photography. Some of them are nice, but I have not tried them all. A lot to go through.
"Sumit_Argwal" is probably the first person to try to recreate film stocks, and then have his picture styles get noticed. They are a baked in look. Not flat. Fun if you want that rich look though.
"TEST_images" are a few pictures that might help you in designing your own Picture Style. There is an intended variation with them in order to see how you picture style reacts to different exposures and white balances.
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Apefos Adapter
Well-known member
I read all the 28 pages, great efforts and information here!
What are the opinions about the shutter down pancake picture style?
http://shutterdown.com/how-to/video-tips/dslr-video-tips/shutter-down-pancake-canon-picture-style/
What are the opinions about the shutter down pancake picture style?
http://shutterdown.com/how-to/video-tips/dslr-video-tips/shutter-down-pancake-canon-picture-style/
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As with most picture styles, they are used to taste. Does it fit your style?
I will be playing around with picture styles again starting today. I have the 60D and 1d-c, and I will see if the ps's work similarly in these cameras or if there is a huge difference.
One thing I have noticed is how poorly standard profile blows out on the 1D-c. Very difficult to fix in post. Prolost Neutral has always had an odd look to me, a non-linear sort of low contrast. C-log is quite awesome, but is not something I always want to use.
I'll take a second look at pancake flat. Though i do not really care for their description. Using associative words like "dynamic range of the Red" in their goals, and completely irrelevant descriptions like "buttery smoothness..."
Do you have a file so I do not have to "like" it or subscribe?
Apefos Adapter
Well-known member
I did not test it yet. As a GH2 user, not satisfied with the dynamic range and shadow/highlight results, I started researching about what canon, nikon and sony cameras could do...
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There are times when I feel dynamic range is over rated. THose times when I look at my histogram and see I am not using the full range. Best to have something that clips nicely.
Though, extra dynamic range is definitely useful, and I long for when 18+ stops DR and 16bit is readily available.
From what I here, the GH3 is better in DR than the GH2, but I am sure you have researched that. To be honest, the 60d has "enough" dr, but it is weak in its codec, and the highlights and shadows suffer. Perhaps the best thing about the 1D-C is having better codec options. Though, the dynamic range is not mind blowing. The GH2 footage from the "Color Upstream" looked good. THey were not afraid of blowing out the image, and it looked fine to me, but again, I assume that is not the look you are going for. But Canon is only sightly better.
ANY PS that attempts to expand dynamic range is going to give you noise issues. If it doesn't, then you are probably not getting any more usable latitude.
Apefos Adapter
Well-known member
This is interesting considerations. Yes, sometimes the highlights clips, but the image itself is pleasant to look at. I like GH2 for skin texture, tones and color. But in some situations I would like more control in shadows / highlights and in image contrast...
In my researches about better DR I found these options in the cheap route:
Canon T3i is a good option: custom picture styles and also magic lantern HDR. Less expensive and flip LCD. Denoise in low light is good up to iso 3200. I saw some videos about it on vimeo and downloaded some raw clips to do tests. VAF-Txi filter can help also.
Nikon D5200 is a good option: custom picture profiles and great low light performance, I like it with Flaat. A little more money. I followed the thread about it here and I liked the tests.
Sony Nex-5n, Nex-F3, Nex-3n is good option: Flaat Shootout 2012 shows good DR, but no mic input and noisy in low light, also more aliasing.
GH3 image texture is the most cinematic, but it is expensive and the DR improvement is little, no custom profiles / styles. If you have the GH2 which is the same cinematic image, GH3 does not worth buy, also noisy in low light compared to D5200. Sensor is smaller than GH2, and I would like a sensor similar to S35.
These are my thoughts so far...
Edit post: P.S.: I understand the custom picture styles / profiles sometimes can increase the DR a little like the Flaat results in the shadows or can MIMIC more DR when lifting the shadows and lowering the highlights values, and I like this. But this is not all about DR, I also like the possibility to control the contrast as shown in the human faces here in this thread. It is impossible to do with the GH2/GH3 and Canon picture styles does good things on this. I believe Nikon picture profile editor can also do similar things.
In my researches about better DR I found these options in the cheap route:
Canon T3i is a good option: custom picture styles and also magic lantern HDR. Less expensive and flip LCD. Denoise in low light is good up to iso 3200. I saw some videos about it on vimeo and downloaded some raw clips to do tests. VAF-Txi filter can help also.
Nikon D5200 is a good option: custom picture profiles and great low light performance, I like it with Flaat. A little more money. I followed the thread about it here and I liked the tests.
Sony Nex-5n, Nex-F3, Nex-3n is good option: Flaat Shootout 2012 shows good DR, but no mic input and noisy in low light, also more aliasing.
GH3 image texture is the most cinematic, but it is expensive and the DR improvement is little, no custom profiles / styles. If you have the GH2 which is the same cinematic image, GH3 does not worth buy, also noisy in low light compared to D5200. Sensor is smaller than GH2, and I would like a sensor similar to S35.
These are my thoughts so far...
Edit post: P.S.: I understand the custom picture styles / profiles sometimes can increase the DR a little like the Flaat results in the shadows or can MIMIC more DR when lifting the shadows and lowering the highlights values, and I like this. But this is not all about DR, I also like the possibility to control the contrast as shown in the human faces here in this thread. It is impossible to do with the GH2/GH3 and Canon picture styles does good things on this. I believe Nikon picture profile editor can also do similar things.
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agreed
FilmBrute
Member
The problem every picture style runs into is: 8 bit. All the styles have trade offs, like Samuel always points out. Flaat might be worse than some profiles in the shadows, but better in the midtones. And maybe some crazy profile will get you an extra 1.5 stops, but the midtones will suck. Personally, the fact that Act of Valor was shot on neutral kinda slapped me across the face. It made my snap out of this picture profile obsession. :grin:
The problem I faced when using some profiles is that I misused them. I think its an easy mistake to make; not understanding how to optimally use a particular profile. Like expsoing properly, or knowing what the profile is designed for. So, in a lot of circumstances you can do more harm than good. For instance: I see many people use technicolor for in studio facial close ups. And after grading, the skin looks awful. It makes so much more sense to use portrait or neutral, or prolost flat if you want to get fancy in that scenario.
The problem I faced when using some profiles is that I misused them. I think its an easy mistake to make; not understanding how to optimally use a particular profile. Like expsoing properly, or knowing what the profile is designed for. So, in a lot of circumstances you can do more harm than good. For instance: I see many people use technicolor for in studio facial close ups. And after grading, the skin looks awful. It makes so much more sense to use portrait or neutral, or prolost flat if you want to get fancy in that scenario.