Zoom H4n - just ordered

stephenvv

stephenvv

Well-known member
Okay, instead of lens, the first part of GH1 kit is audio and the Zoom H4N seems like the best option from what I can tell.

An image this good needs good audio and I'm hoping to use it both as a camera mounted stereo mike, a double-system sound recording and a combo (XLR mics and onboard stereo) since it does 4 channel recording.

I'm planning on trying to always run a feed, wired and/or wireless into GH1 for sync purposes.

Not sure what the best/stable camera mount for easy access to controls. Any thoughts?

BTW, I ordered from Amazon - one the marketplace sellers had it for $349 with 16 GB class 6 card and mini tripod.
 
Nice!!! I'm jealous! I cant' wait to get my own, man. I'm really excited about the reports on this in conjunction with the GH-1, but any camera will do.

I plan on using one for the feature this May, paired with some Wireless Lavs.

Please report back asap!
 
Hey guys I'm working on making a small porta brace style shoulder bag or belt clip bag to hold the Zoom H4N and either a Mix Pre or Beachtec, it'll have velco on the front to stick a wireless receiver or two on it if need be and a little pouch for a couple extra batteries / sd cards. It's going to be really small and light for field / doc productions, fast action stuff and perfect for a one man doc shoot, about 1/5th the size of the portabrace bag for sound devices gear.

This with a single earbud type monitor device and the little GH1 camera will get me access into places that I wouldn't be allowed into with a hvx and large portabrace audio bag. Times are changing!
 
Soon Skynet will know everything!

In all seriousness, the bag sounds cool. Are you building it from scratch? I don't know how big the Zoom is exactly, but a mental estimation based on the size of the XLR inputs tells me that this thing would probably fit nicely inside an AK mag pouch. So something like this might be a good place to start from:

MP40.jpg


Or like this, with MOLLE straps:

opticsplanet_2048_612902865


You'd have to cut some holes in it, I guess.
 
Kholi said:
Nice!!! I'm jealous! I cant' wait to get my own, man. I'm really excited about the reports on this in conjunction with the GH-1, but any camera will do.

I plan on using one for the feature this May, paired with some Wireless Lavs.

Please report back asap!
Click to expand...

Will do. I will test it with my HV30 before it goes on the selling block. I will post results here.
 
dougspice said:
Soon Skynet will know everything!

In all seriousness, the bag sounds cool. Are you building it from scratch? I don't know how big the Zoom is exactly, but a mental estimation based on the size of the XLR inputs tells me that this thing would probably fit nicely inside an AK mag pouch. So something like this might be a good place to start from:

MP40.jpg


Or like this, with MOLLE straps:

opticsplanet_2048_612902865


You'd have to cut some holes in it, I guess.
Click to expand...

Funny you put those up, a friend makes tactical / weapons bags for guns, I was going to ask him to make a custom one for me so no I actually wouldn't be making it myself unless he says no but a case of beer always goes a long way. Who knows, if people like it maybe he could add it to his line of products.
 
Yeah, I'm personally in love with 5.11's SERE bag, so I've been thinking of various MOLLE contraptions that might be appropriate for filmmaking as well as... secret operations.

In other news, when is someone gonna make a camera with Weaver rails?
 
dougspice said:
In other news, when is someone gonna make a camera with Weaver rails?
Click to expand...

Hopefully never. Weaver rails are my nomination for Worst Standard Ever. (But maybe its just because things called by that name may often not fit the standard?)
 
Last edited:
Just got the new Zoom H4n. It's pretty cool. I was multi-tracking in 10 minutes without ever touching the manual. (Yes, I'm a man)

My question is this: In terms of sync, what speed does the GH-1 record at? The D90 is obviously straight 24fps, which will sync with any recorder running at 24fps or 30fps. I haven't checked the H4n, but I'm assuming that it runs at the 29.97 or 23.976 speed? (same thing really) So to sync with the d90, the video clips would have to be conformed to 23.976. A pain. Is the Gh-1 the same way?
 
Kholi said:
Nice!!! I'm jealous! I cant' wait to get my own, man. I'm really excited about the reports on this in conjunction with the GH-1, but any camera will do.

I plan on using one for the feature this May, paired with some Wireless Lavs.

Please report back asap!
Click to expand...


Which Wireless Lavs do you recommend?
 
LizaWitz said:
I think the NLE will handle it if you align the audio and video tracks right at the beginning.
Click to expand...

From what I've read lately in my research on these digital audio recorders, you might get into a situation where the sync speed is eventually lost, even if you perfectly align the audio to the video at the beginning of the clip. This seems to be an issue on long running clips, so for narrative work it might not be much of a problem. For events though, that is where I would be more concerned.

There are ways to figure out the difference in speed between your camera and audio device. I can't find the link about it in my bookmarks, so I'll see if I can re-google it.

I'm no expert on these audio recorders, so if anyone who has experience with these types of devices please chime in and shed some light on this issue.

Edit: I'm seeing some stuff on dvinfo saying that the H4n has fixed the sync problems with video. Can anyone clarify this?
 
Before folks go spending lots of money on external audio recording gear for use with the GH1, it would helpful if a current GH1 owner/user could do some basic, careful tests/comparisons of its audio capabilities when connected to a pro external mic and mixer (not the optional Panasonic mic).

The reason I mention this is that it's possible the GH1's built-in audio circuitry might actually be capable of very good results when used with a pro mic & mixer connected to the GH1's 4-pin "mic/remote" jack.

Even though the GH1 almost certainly has audio auto-gain which can't be disabled, it's possible the behavior of its auto-gain circuit might be fairly benign & highly useful. This has been the case with some prosumer cams in the past. For example, I believe the Sony PD-150 miniDV cam actually had better-sounding audio when it's auto audio-gain feature was turned on compared to when it was turned off.

Some careful real-world tests of the GH1's audio capability using a pro external mic/mixer may help prevent others from doing unnecessary/expensive guesswork.

The audio tests don't require scientific lab gear (although that would be nice!), but it will require an appropriately-wired audio cable & plug, a pro-quality mic, a pro audio interface/mixer, a nice external amp, pro headphones and speakers, and a good set of ears.

Maybe a pro audio tech here could volunteer to work with a "nearby" GH1 owner/user to do some tests like this?

Hunter, if you have time, hardware-wise I've got everything except the 4-pin plug ... maybe we can cobble a test together?
 
Nektonic has it right.

Think about it. These little recorders do not have TC in or out or TC capability. They have no sync or genlock capability. They have no TC track. So there is no time code or a time base. A recorder records the sound independently so the frame rate of the video recording device is irrelevant. Even when you slate it with a clap board at the head and tail, the two devices, the camera and the audio recorder, will eventually fall out of sync. The question with the 5D MKII is will the recorder stay in sync for up to around 12-15 minutes? Because that is as long as the Canon can record in one shot. It will vary from camera to camera and from recorder to recorder, a lot of it is honestly luck as far as if you obtain two non TC, non Sync devices that will stay in sync for a decent amount of time.

The good news is that since both devices are digital and solid state, there are no tape variables as we used to have, no capstan slippage, servo speed fluctuations, etc. I would be willing to say that you should be able to easily get at least ten minutes sync with almost any audio device and the Canon 5D MKII or the Panasonic GH1. Possibly longer. But you will never know until you try with your own devices because there are variances in the clock accuracy in each different sample.

Dan
 
I still like the idea of having my sound man using an external digital audio recorder and not having to always be tethered to the camera anymore. I just can't forget to slate any takes, which when hooked into the camera by XLR meant that if you forgot sometimes it wasn't a problem.

I found then lost a link to a method of figuring out the actual ratio that your camera recording speed differs from your audio device's recording speed. Once you know the actual percentage, all you have to do is apply that speed change to your audio clips and you should have the right sync. I'll see if I can find it. And as Dan says, it might not even be a problem for the average length of a take on a narrative project. I mean, most takes don't last longer than a minute, maybe two sometimes in certain cases.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top