XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

No , I didn't seen the series.
My point here is that after reading the forum I got a picture af a generel DVX user. It is like this: Ok, I have my camcorder , now I'm a filmmaker! Doesn't metter what I do, it gonna be better than yours because I've got my cine-gamma.

As I sad before I'm in industry video not film. It means if there is 2 faces on the screen than both has to be in focus. No one wants shallow focus. They are paying for sharp pictures nothing else. But in the last year we are combining it with small film-like episodes. And to make those small "films" inside the hole industry video we gonna buy 4 new camcorders. That's why I'm interested in DVX/XL2 or other solutions now.
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

[quote author=Jestorius link=board=XL2;num=1095442168;start=45#58 date=09/23/04 at 06:36:01]It is still interlaced video, what ever you are using. [/quote]

If you’re watching something on a TV, then yes, it is interlaced, because that’s how a standard TV displays it.

But to say the process of recording makes no difference is ludicrous. Are you going to tell me that a standard soap opera or game show looks the same on a TV as would something shot on 35mm? Absolutely not. And so, too, it is with the DVX and XL2, both with their progressive recording modes and their gamma curves. It’s NOT like recording interlaced video, and it doesn’t look like something recorded in interlaced video, even on an interlaced screen.

Yes, you can achieve much the same effect in post – but why go through the process when you can start several steps ahead when you’re acquiring the material in the first place? That’s the advantage of the 24p modes and cinegamma curves in both cameras.
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

You can't get the full effect of CineGamma in post. CineGamma in particular changes the way the camera processes the high end of the exposure range. It brings out quite a bit more exposure latitude.

You can simulate some of the look in post, but once your camera's captured the frame, the latitude is set in stone. CineGamma lets you change that before capturing. Can't simulate that effect in post!
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

I don't want to attack the DVX-users but if the DVX records frames , 24 frames, than where is the motion blur? The color is god, the optic is god, it has functions from prof. cameras, but where is the 24 frame motion blur? I'm not tallking abouth shutterspeed effect , just a regular motion blur.

And:
- No autofocus in 24P... and that really sucks.
- No remote control for focusing either!!!
- Microphones do not sound good.. but that was expected. So get external microphone
- Don't expect to shoot during lowlight environment in 24P... it's just not made for it.
- Expect to buy a lot more stuff after this.
- The manual is really BAD. If you don't know how to use this camera, you have hours/days before understanding it all. ???? Is it true?
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

- Excellent picture quality
- Very nice large viewfinder
- Lense equivalent to 30-300mm gives excellent wide angle and zooming images.
- Can't beat the large LCD (can't see anything in the sun though)
- pretty stable manipulation in wide angle... but needs support on zoom.
- Auto white balance works great.
- Autofocus only in 60I. Manual only in 30P / 24P
- Bad on-camera microphone, it was expected.
- No info from panasonic on the 24P operation, read your FCP/Adobe manuals well to understand how it works.

Make sure to only use the 63min PQ panasonic tapes!!!

is it true?
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

What do you mean no autofocus in 24P? The original DVX100 did not have this but that has since been corrected with the DVX100a. Granted, it's pretty slow but it still works really well.

The microphone is actually pretty good for recording ambient sounds but suffers because it is too close to the camera and can pick up the sound of the motor but this is not exclusive to the DVX.

I believe there is at least one product out there that enables remote focussing.

You can use both MQ and PQ tapes with it.

You can debate this issue to death (and it's getting close) but try the camera for yourself and then decide. Some of the answers to your questions are, by their very nature, subjective and, unless one has some hands on experience with the camera, I don't think one is qualified to argue some of these points.
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

I'm not argue, only asking.
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

I understand, but you get the point, right? Are you resisting renting one of these cameras to try it out for yourself?
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

I don't need to rent, I can get it free for more than one day. Try to buy more than one camcorder and you realise how nice the life can be.

I just want to get as much info as I can from others using the camcorder. The problem is that it is a DVX-user forum. It feels that everyone who got this camcorder is hiding something and trying to cover it with cinema gamma. If I ask Canon-users they do the same. Yes, the DVX cinema gamma is very god but it's not all. And the cinema look is more than just what I have seen of the DVX. There is so many different filmlook.
We don't have XL2 untill 01 oktober and the Sony HDV 1080i is comming as well.
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

Yes cinegamma isn't the end all solution but it's pretty darn nice. I'm not entirely sure I agree with those who say it cannot be implemented in post though... you can do some great stuff with 16bit correction utilizing After Effects. We must also remember that the sensor is _linear_ so all gamma processing is done *after* the image has been taken off of the CCDs. You won't gain any dynamic range benefit once the image has been acquired. I assume that any gain in latitude is because the camera underexposes and then once it applies the curve you have a more normal exposure and the illusion of more dynamic range. Ever wonder why Cine-D is so darn grainy?

The only real downside to doing this in post is that you have an 8bit image to work with instead of a 12bit image off of the sensor but then you have 16bit editing so it may balance out quite nicely.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong though. These are just my thoughts based upon my not so great understanding of CCDs.
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

exactly,

Cinelike D looks crappy because it seems to have a gain for dark portion only...     extra processing = extra noise

original "Cinelike", and "Cinelike V", and "High" looks 10 times better and cleaner.

Cinelike D is "the crappy" gamma setting on the DVX100A.
All other gamma settings look fine though.
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

Yes that is very interesting how the other gamma settings are so much cleaner... odd really as all the gamma processing is done in camera after image aquisition. Anyone have any ideas why that might be? What exactly are Cinelike, Cinelike V and High doing?
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

It becomes much more prevalent in shots that have lower light. You are not going to see it so much in shots as well lit as your examples.

Try shooting some things in the evening, just before the sun sets.
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

[quote author=Jestorius link=board=XL2;num=1095442168;start=60#68 date=09/23/04 at 10:16:07]I don't need to rent, I can get it free for more than one day. Try to buy more than one camcorder and you realise how nice the life can be.

I just want to get as much info as I can from others using the camcorder. The problem is that it is a DVX-user forum. It feels that everyone who got this camcorder is hiding something and trying to cover it with cinema gamma. If I ask Canon-users they do the same. Yes, the DVX cinema gamma is very god but it's not all. And the cinema look is more than just what I have seen of the DVX. There is so many different filmlook.
We don't have XL2 untill 01 oktober and the Sony HDV 1080i is comming as well.
[/quote]

If you think we’re all hiding something, how can we possibly answer the question?

I’m not hiding anything. Nobody else is either, as far as I can tell.
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

[quote author=Jestorius link=board=XL2;num=1095442168;start=60#68 date=09/23/04 at 10:16:07]The problem is that it is a DVX-user forum. It feels that everyone who got this camcorder is hiding something and trying to cover it with cinema gamma.
[/quote]

LMAO

The great DVXuser.com conspiracy.

Good grief.
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

Jestorius, I think the best advice has been given to you already.  If you can get a free DVX and a XL2 for a day or two then do your own test before you go out and buy four cameras.

But remember its only a tool.  Just like you said disjecta stuff is great because he does have a great eye.  I think he would get the same stuff with any camera and I'd love to see him to something on film.  

And I don't think anyone is hiding anything (now I do agree alot of people love their DVX a little too much), and I can only think of one guy who didn't want to give his settings, but over all I think that people here are willing to share what they've learn with others.  That's one of the things that I really like about this site.  

We disagree sometimes.  But that's part of life.  
 
Re: XL2 Footage with 24p and cine settings?

Alright everyone, I know we're all waiting for Jarred's extensive comparison before we can have some sort of more-definite than mere speculation debate here.

That said, I have both a DVX100A (at home) and now an XL2 (at work). Next Thursday or Friday I'll take some shots outside my office with both, compress 'em (lightly), and post them online. I'll make sure to use Cinegamma on both; so far I haven't even turned on the XL2 so I'm curious myself. Seeya next week.
 
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