Will the new offering from Blackmagic convince Canon to liberate the HDMI on the 5d3

Samuel H said:
I just uploaded this piece, just a fun project that I shot last week at Madrid's Zombie Pride Parade 2012: http://vimeo.com/40741414

it was shot literally run and gun, with no time for "careful shooting and dedication"; I chose an extended-DR picture style (Flaat_11p), to give me more flexibility for fixing in post the exposure problems I was 100% sure I was going to find; I had to push the footage much harder than many people would be confortable with; and because of that, the 420 8-bit codec has created a lot of issues that just wouldn't be there if the camera was shooting uncompressed 12-bit RAW (or just 10-bit log 422)

and even with all the IQ issues, I think it looks great, it was a ton of fun to shoot, it was fun to edit the piece together too, and it's great to watch now that it's done; I just wish I had a bit more time to make it look better (some exposure problems remain, and NR could help a lot with those IQ issues)
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.mkv, nice choice. Wish x264 was more universally accepted. It's so amazing.
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
Stills shooters seem to have MUCH stronger brand loyalty than video people. If you're a Nikon guy you'll buy Nikon, if you're a Canon guy you'll guy Canon, once somebody picks a brand you very rarely see them switch. No doubt partially because the lens investment is much larger than the body investment.
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Sure, some die hard canon fans will stick by their side and defend them and their poor decisions, but it seems like many have bit the bullet and switched, or are highly tempted to. That's an ugly thing when they just released one of the most highly anticipated camera of all time. Canon has backed themselves into a corner regarding the photo and video low to mid level markets, there might be enough brand loyalty there to protect them, but in a way, I hope not.
 
My father (Canon stills shooter, prosumer) was waiting for the 5D3 to upgrade to full frame. His conclusion from the dxomark results released yesterday, and the dpreview samples: there's a very small step up from the 5D2 to the 5D3, and a huge step up from the 5D3 to the D800. His decision: the 5D3 is not an option, he will either buy a cheap second-hand 5D2 and wait for the next full-frame canon, or will take a loss on glass and switch to Nikon (5D3+buysomelenses=$5100; D800+buylenses-sellsomelenses=$5600) (the biggest switching costs are the learning costs: getting used to the new camera controls, and moving from DPP to Lightroom).

Many stills shooters must be thinking similar thoughts (really: 11.7 vs 14.4 stops of DR...)
 
Are you guys walking around the same world I am... because Canon totally dominates on the video side. Nobody else even really exists, not among the non camera nerd crowd of film school kids I know. I have actively tried to convince people to look at other cameras (both Nikon and the GH2) and they still wind up buying Canons. On the stills side it's Mac vs PC. You'll get an occasional switch, but the vast majority of people are gonna stick with the brand they picked when they first started.The 5D3 is a nice upgrade in both worlds. Tons of stuff fixed on the video side, and a nice upgrade to burst and auto focus on the stills side. It's not earth shaking, but when the price drops a few hundred bucks in 6 months I'll look at it.
 
May just be your region. I can't imagine Nashville being as busy as Los Angeles. Takes a whole for the rest of the world to catch up. Especially the south.
 
Kholi said:
May just be your region. I can't imagine Nashville being as busy as Los Angeles. Takes a whole for the rest of the world to catch up. Especially the south.
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No doubt and as I said, not talking about camera nerd DPs. I'm, talking about average twenty something kid starting film school or the guy who is looking for a camera to shoot his zombie opus. It's Canon, like 90% plus. No other brand even really exists. Canon beat everybody to the marketing punch, it's the camera they see on BTS footage of their favorite cable show, they don't even really consider anybody else.
 
yoclay said:
Every thread I found had been either closed or erased. Good. At least there is some dialogue happening, even if it happens to be a few meager posts in the middle of a 53 page thread.
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Are we really doing the "red's a totalitarian state" thing again?

RedUser is for users of RED cameras, to discuss RED cameras. Anything else is off-topic and not allowed. We don't allow politics here, they don't allow other camera discussions there.

No more RedUser bashing please. Leave them to themselves, as we'd want them to leave us to ourselves.
 
S. Matthews said:
I've been asking Graeme and others to figure out a procedure of sorts for testing sensors DR with a repeatable fool proof system
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That's easily done, with the proper tool. You need a backlit DSC 18-stop grayscale chart, such as what I have and what Adam Wilt uses. And then you need an absolutely flat, even light source to backlight it. With those two things you can get a precise reading on exactly how much DR a specific camera can resolve, and it's a test that should be 100% repeatable by anyone in the world, who has the appropriate tools.

Just seems to me human error plays a major part in all of these sorts of tests when they shouldn't, it should just be "oh new camera came out what's it's sensitivity, oh it scored a 67 on the steve scale" .... I know there are great ways of testing DR it's just hard to repeat the exact same way on multiple tests by multiple people around the world for multiple different cameras using different lenses. Either way it would save a hell of a lot of bandwidth, and prevent endless discussions arguing points of view on who's test was done better and who to trust.
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Agreed, human error leads to a tremendous amount of wasted breath and wasted bandwidth arguing over things that never should have been argued about in the first case. Which is why I'm watching that 5D Mark III OLPF-removal situation and just shaking my head in disbelief... something that could be definitively answered in five minutes by anyone who has the proper tool...
 
gene_can_sing said:
Now that the MaxMax OLP filter removal seems to be a bust, the 5D3 seems to be destined to be a "Soft" video camera. With it's internal resolution being so soft, it does not seem like HDMI output would help that would it? It would just give more colorspace and picture integrity, but would it help the sharpness at all? Doesn't seem like it.
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We've already had this debate, the image is softer than the MKII at 0 sharpness setting but with some post sharpening there is more overall resolution especially at higher ISOs. The IPB codec with b-frames is more efficient than the old MKII H.264 codec too.

It's not just the Blackmagic camera developments that are worth watching but what mosaic engineering can do with an anti-aliasing filter for the D800 or D800E. I want to add a high dynamic range uncompressed output camera to my arsenal.
 
ROCKMORE said:
Not till BM releases a FF with clean HDMI first. Remember pushing Canon is like pushing an elephant. They move when they want to.
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Completely agree. Totally opaque as a company.
This is also what allows them to sell cameras up until the day the new version goes on sale.
 
just to confirm the dxomark numbers and show visually how great the D800 looks against the 5D3 in their core (stills) market... http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index_controlled-tests.html and that's a long-time Canon shooter, saying things like "Obviously, the Nikon D800 is in a totally different league" and "There is no question that the D800 does not disappoint in signal to noise ratio (SNR) at low ISO and has higher dynamic range. I'm still shocked by the differences." - you're right, Canon probably won't react; but they should - and it's not a question of "I can't live with such image quality" but instead "why should I pay $500 more for clearly worse image quality? it should be $500 LESS!!"
 
yoclay said:
The fact is Canon has been too conservative
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I think the word is miserly.

Don't get me wrong, My Canon DSLRs are all good and I shoot every day with them. Every camera has seen many times the investment returned in a short time. When a new camera that really makes a difference for my clients arrives than I will get it, but as long as Canon drags their heals than it can wait another day.

The bottom line is if you can't make money with all the cameras out then you may be in the wrong business.

The new BM is exciting, but we have yet to see.
 
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Samuel H said:
just to confirm the dxomark numbers and show visually how great the D800 looks against the 5D3 in their core (stills) market... http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index_controlled-tests.html and that's a long-time Canon shooter, saying things like "Obviously, the Nikon D800 is in a totally different league" and "There is no question that the D800 does not disappoint in signal to noise ratio (SNR) at low ISO and has higher dynamic range. I'm still shocked by the differences." - you're right, Canon probably won't react; but they should - and it's not a question of "I can't live with such image quality" but instead "why should I pay $500 more for clearly worse image quality? it should be $500 LESS!!"
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That's the cost of building your own "sensors" and Nikon buying the best sensors. Canon is competing against electronic companies in semi-conductor technology, but Nikon just buys the best sensors, regardless of who makes them.

This situation is very similar to Apple before they switched to using Intel chip. Apple was in essence not just competing against Windows but also Intel. Canon should do the same. Put the best sensors in your cameras.
 
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