C300: Will Canon drop the C300 Mark II Price in the near future?

I hope there is a C200 that debuts at Cine Gear. I hope that Canon is smart enough to discontinue the tall, non shoulder mounted form factor. The Varicam LT is beginning to look like a better long term investment to me than the C300 MKII. It has wonderful color science, uses all of our EF mount lenses, shoots 4K 60p, while it doesn't have DPAF, the focus tool is great, has a good selection of codecs, it's HD high speed looks better than the C300 MKII. With a few 256 GB cards and using my current Zacuto VCT Pro baseplate and buying the Zacuto Graticle Eye rather than the $6k killer Panasonic eyepiece, it turns out to be only about $5k more than a C300 MKII package.
 
puredrifting said:
I hope there is a C200 that debuts at Cine Gear. I hope that Canon is smart enough to discontinue the tall, non shoulder mounted form factor. The Varicam LT is beginning to look like a better long term investment to me than the C300 MKII. It has wonderful color science, uses all of our EF mount lenses, shoots 4K 60p, while it doesn't have DPAF, the focus tool is great, has a good selection of codecs, it's HD high speed looks better than the C300 MKII. With a few 256 GB cards and using my current Zacuto VCT Pro baseplate and buying the Zacuto Graticle Eye rather than the $6k killer Panasonic eyepiece, it turns out to be only about $5k more than a C300 MKII package.
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AND, although not as elegant and quick as Sony, the user can switch back and forth between EF and PL. That may not be important to some, but I believe it's very.
 
C300 MKII was announced in April, shipped by September. If Cinegear is the new NAB (companies seem to have colluded slightly in that regard), then this is almost on schedule.
 
I don't like the vertical body as well, but the C700 isn't great either.

The C100's LCD design would work for me, even something like a FS700.

But having a LCD separate and on a handle with cables is just asinine.
 
At least the C100 form factor is useable right out of the box. The C700 has zero form factor unless you pay $1000's to rig it up.
 
Michael Thames said:
At least the C100 form factor is useable right out of the box. The C700 has zero form factor unless you pay $1000's to rig it up.
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Not sure what you mean Michael? Other than a base plate and a handle (which every other camera in the same class as the C700 - Amira, F55, Varicam LT requires), what else is needed to make the C700 usable?

To make my C100/300 usable for handheld shoulder mount documentary style, I had to add:

1. Zacuto EVF Pro VF
2. Mounting arm, battery, HDMI cable for EVF
3. Zacuto VCT Pro Baseplate
4. Zacuto VCT-14 Camera Plate
5. Wooden Camera 15mm to Dual Arri Rosette mount
6. Wooden Camera Canon Grip Relocator
7. Dual Tilta 6" Arri Rosette Alloy Extension Arms
8. Arri Rosette Left Side dummy handle
9. 6" Rod for rear of Zacuto VCT Baseplate
10. Giottos 15mm rod to 1.4 20 male for Atomos Ninja Blade
11. 12" coiled HDMI cable for Atomos Ninja Blade

I would love to get rid of all of this kludged up mess and have a camera with a real EVF, attached to the side of the camera where it belongs, an integrated shoulder mount with VCT camera plate attachments and two 15mm rod outlets and the front and an included Sony FS7 style arm and handgrip. That would be perfect. Wouldn't interfere with slider/crane/tripod use and would actually be usable for shoulder mounted shooting withough spending a fortune and having all of the crap hanging off of your camera rig.

C700 handheld.jpg
 
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puredrifting said:
Not sure what you mean Michael? Other than a base plate and a handle (which every other camera in the same class as the C700 - Amira, F55, Varicam LT requires), what else is needed to make the C700 usable?

To make my C100/300 usable for handheld shoulder mount documentary style, I had to add:

1. Zacuto EVF Pro VF
2. Mounting arm, battery, HDMI cable for EVF
3. Zacuto VCT Pro Baseplate
4. Zacuto VCT-14 Camera Plate
5. Wooden Camera 15mm to Dual Arri Rosette mount
6. Wooden Camera Canon Grip Relocator
7. Dual Tilta 6" Arri Rosette Alloy Extension Arms
8. Arri Rosette Left Side dummy handle
9. 6" Rod for rear of Zacuto VCT Baseplate
10. Giottos 15mm rod to 1.4 20 male for Atomos Ninja Blade
11. 12" coiled HDMI cable for Atomos Ninja Blade

I would love to get rid of all of this kludged up mess and have a camera with a real EVF, attached to the side of the camera where it belongs, an integrated shoulder mount with VCT camera plate attachments and two 15mm rod outlets and the front and an included Sony FS7 style arm and handgrip. That would be perfect. Wouldn't interfere with slider/crane/tripod use and would actually be usable for shoulder mounted shooting withough spending a fortune and having all of the crap hanging off of your camera rig.

View attachment 123489
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I haven't paid a ton of attention to the Canon C700 since it is out of my price range and needs, but the it appears that it costs $7000 over the base package to get it into the shoulder mount form. I'm personally not a fan of the shoulder mount form, but I'm pretty sure the C200 will have the shorter and longer body form with a detached EVF/monitor. It makes sense since there is obviously a market for that form based on the number of people on this forum that swear that the current C300/C100 form is near unusable. I would be happy if the C200 had a detached EVF to make it even lighter and more adaptable for sliders and gimbals, but it is never going to be anything other than a bunch of pieces that have to be put together. Otherwise, the camera is going to be far more heavy than most of the market wants.
 
cpreston said:
It makes sense since there is obviously a market for that form based on the number of people on this forum that swear that the current C300/C100 form is near unusable.
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I have to say, I have tried a lot of different baseplates, shoulder pads, rods, mounting arms for my Ninja Blade, for my C100/300. And now that I spent the money on the stuff I have, the set up works pretty well overall. But it's not small and slick, it is exactly what you say it is, it takes a lot of extra time to assemble it, adjust it and make it ready to go. And from an economic standpoint, it takes thousands of extra dollars to make these cameras work correctly for handheld doc shooting. Personally, I would rather put that money into glass, a drone, or a new iMac rather than having to Franken Rig up my main cameras while giving Zacuto and Wooden Camera a lot of money to do so. I mean the FS7 has kind of proved that users like having a camera they can take out of the box shoot off the shoulder. I came from an Arri SR-2 that I owned and yes, you had to have third party controls and baseplates but that nice, compact form factor was excellent. My Canons with my Zacuto/Wooden Franken Rigs are a design disaster in comparison. I hate all of the cables, cable ties, tie down knobs, too. clean and integrated, streamlined is what designers should be going for.
 
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puredrifting said:
Not sure what you mean Michael? Other than a base plate and a handle (which every other camera in the same class as the C700 - Amira, F55, Varicam LT requires), what else is needed to make the C700 usable?

To make my C100/300 usable for handheld shoulder mount documentary style, I had to add:

1. Zacuto EVF Pro VF
2. Mounting arm, battery, HDMI cable for EVF
3. Zacuto VCT Pro Baseplate
4. Zacuto VCT-14 Camera Plate
5. Wooden Camera 15mm to Dual Arri Rosette mount
6. Wooden Camera Canon Grip Relocator
7. Dual Tilta 6" Arri Rosette Alloy Extension Arms
8. Arri Rosette Left Side dummy handle
9. 6" Rod for rear of Zacuto VCT Baseplate
10. Giottos 15mm rod to 1.4 20 male for Atomos Ninja Blade
11. 12" coiled HDMI cable for Atomos Ninja Blade

I would love to get rid of all of this kludged up mess and have a camera with a real EVF, attached to the side of the camera where it belongs, an integrated shoulder mount with VCT camera plate attachments and two 15mm rod outlets and the front and an included Sony FS7 style arm and handgrip. That would be perfect. Wouldn't interfere with slider/crane/tripod use and would actually be usable for shoulder mounted shooting withough spending a fortune and having all of the crap hanging off of your camera rig.

View attachment 123489
Click to expand...

Pure Driftling, forgive me, but I think we are in two different worlds you are a profesional who needs a shoulder rigged camera, I don't operate in that world. I shoot music videos and aspire to some documentary work, solely to promote my "real" daytime job. I view the C100's as perfect for what I do. That said, I believe I have become somewhat obsessed with gear, never being quite satisfied.

To be honest rigging up a C-series camera for shoulder mounting is something I've never thought about until reading your comments on the subject. I can see your point.

I never shot run and gun before this year, and discovered it was a blast! Stripped down the C100 mkii and I was a joy to use as I walked around Thailand...... can't imagine walking around Bangkok all day with a shoulder mounted rig..... stuffing it in and out of my backpack.

Using it on a slider or tripod as you say is no big deal, so I guess I look at the form factor as perfect for what I do, and can see it's not perfect for what you do.

Never having used a C700 and never will, I see that camera as a box with a handle on it, that will cost $1000's to rig up for any style of user. Certainly not a good run and gun camera, or maybe it is...... I wouldn't know.

For all of you professionals who want a shoulder friendly C100's, there are probably far more of us who like the simple form factor of it just the way it is. Light, easy to hold, easy access to buttons and size.

In the end you have far more experience with this than I do, and perhaps Canon has heard your wishes and the C200 will have a different form factor, in the same way the C700 is from the C500. All eyes are on Canon and it's gonna be interesting to see what shakes loose.
 
Ha, ha, I think run & gun with the C700 would not be fun, it's simply too big and heavy. I have run & gunned with the Amira and had to have a PA follow me just to carry the batteries all day. Yes, we are definitely in two different worlds, a lot of my clients want to shoot handheld run & gun and for shooting documentaries, it's standard protocol. I have bought the Letus Helix Jr. Magnesium for running around with the C100 also, that is still being worked out as far as how effective it will be. The Helix Jr. and C100 is big and heavy enough that I can only shoot for perhaps 5-10 minutes a time before needing to rest my back/shoulders so it's good for more scripted stuff. In documentary, we often have to just hang out and wait for stuff to happen to shoulder mount is much more realistic for that kind of shooting. The good thing is that i now have my Zacuto/Wooden Franken rig so if the C200 or Panasonic mystery cam or Varicam LT is my next camera, I will already have most of the parts for it. The Zacuto VCT Pro baseplate really is a great piece of gear, I can realistically mount almost any camera on the market on it and it has 15mm rods and a very comfortable gel shouder pad. I have the Zacuto EVF Pro which is only HDMI input so if I buy the Varicam LT, I will also have to spring for a Graticle Eye as I cannot afford the $6k Panasonic excellent EVF. No camera or form factor is perfect. I really like the C100/300 on the tripod or slider. But it seems as I embark on more documentary shoots the past year or so (I am pitching four of our own documentaries as well), shooting handheld is becoming more a part of my world so this stuff matters to me.

Not the end of the world if the C200/C100MKIII is not shoulder mountable or that the new Panasonic mystery cam doesn't seem to be. I have the parts to make it work but it then becomes a cable infested mess with stuff hanging off the rig everywhere. One more thing I like about the Varicam LT, it's close to the perfect doc form factor, just held back by the 20 second reboot time to change settings and no physical audio controls, that you have go into the control panel to adjust audio levels is lame. But I can probably live with it. Just need to see what happens by Fall with all of these projects and the new cameras.
 
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puredrifting said:
Ha, ha, I think run & gun with the C700 would not be fun, it's simply too big and heavy. I have run & gunned with the Amira and had to have a PA follow me just to carry the batteries all day. Yes, we are definitely in two different worlds, a lot of my clients want to shoot handheld run & gun and for shooting documentaries, it's standard protocol. I have bought the Letus Helix Jr. Magnesium for running around with the C100 also, that is still being worked out as far as how effective it will be. The Helix Jr. and C100 is big and heavy enough that I can only shoot for perhaps 5-10 minutes a time before needing to rest my back/shoulders so it's good for more scripted stuff. In documentary, we often have to just hang out and wait for stuff to happen to shoulder mount is much more realistic for that kind of shooting. The good thing is that i now have my Zacuto/Wooden Franken rig so if the C200 or Panasonic mystery cam or Varicam LT is my next camera, I will already have most of the parts for it. The Zacuto VCT Pro baseplate really is a great piece of gear, I can realistically mount almost any camera on the market on it and it has 15mm rods and a very comfortable gel shouder pad. I have the Zacuto EVF Pro which is only HDMI input so if I buy the Varicam LT, I will also have to spring for a Graticle Eye as I cannot afford the $6k Panasonic excellent EVF. No camera or form factor perfect. I really like the C100/300 on the tripod or slider. But it seems as I embark on more documentary shoots the past year or so (I am pitching four of our own documentaries as well), shooting handheld is becoming more a part of my world so this stuff matters to me.

Not the end of the world if the C200/C100MKIII is not shoulder mountable or that the new Panasonic mystery cam doesn't seem to be. I have the parts to make it work but it then becomes a cable infested mess with stuff hanging off the rig everywhere. One more thing I like about the Varicam LT, it's close to the perfect doc form factor, just held back by the 20 second reboot time to change settings and no physical audio controls, that you have go into the control panel to adjust audio levels is lame. But I can probably live with it. Just need to see what happens by Fall with all of these projects and the new cameras.
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Ha ha! That big cable infested mess just means you look more professional! Cant imagine walking around shooting professionally with a Sony A7II or a GH5. Size does matter, or at least it has to be big enough.

Last year I was having lunch at a famous Mexican restaurant here in Santa Fe known for their world famous margaritas. A film crew came in while I was finishing up my second or third margarita, to shoot a travel doc. One guy had a huge I think Sony shoulder mounted camera, and the other guy was walking around shooting B-roll with a 5D. The guy with the big camera got the chicks!

When I move to Bangkok next year and start my new video/sound production business, I'll get a shoulder mount for what ever C-series camera I end up with.
 
I definitely want a big camera with a load of clutter hanging off of it so I can get all of the chicks. My wife agrees ;-)
 
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