Why must nudity be justified?

You have to get past the view that nudity is somehow dirty. It isn't.

This is a poor caricature of the opposing perspective. The opposing perspective would say nudity is special, not dirty, and what is dirty is diluting its sanctity via certain context.

It comes down to the culture in each country and even then it is a fuzzy shade of grey. Also within each country there will be a range of views.

Defining moral gray merely on the terms that there are many different views is a lazy attempt at defining gray - it assumes all perspectives or practices are equally "good". That's not how philosophy has ever attempted to define values of "good". The question is what is "good" (put another way, what is the end goal, precisely), and how well does item/issue XYZ precisely do to serve or hinder that end goal?

In some cultures, they beat children. In other cultures, racist practices are norms. That doesn't make any of those things "gray"; gray is anchored to values. If your primary value is economic production and efficiency, one could say that beating children or slavery has utility. But if you have a competing value of human rights, these come into conflicts, and at a certain point one value has to take precedence over the other. In other instances, competing values need to balanced in careful harmony. That's complicated.

Point being, you could say nudity in media is "gray" because there are competing values and valid (and still in progress) competing arguments on how to best manage them, but not merely because many people/cultures landed in different places. From a scientific perspective, we'd be more interested in analyzing and assessing how well different cultural experiments have gone in different cultures over time to determine what's black, white, and gray. And we have to do that precisely; it's not enough to say there has been painted representations of nudity in religious art in Europe for hundreds of years, therefore, real photographic nudity plastered on billboards and displaying in motion on digital delivery is basically the same. It's not, and our data on that is extremely short term.

Yeah it's not that complicated in real life. People just make it an issue.

Most people don't realize how complex their simple assumptions are. Light bulbs are very simple, you just flip a switch and walla, light. The harnessing of electricity from a central hub to your home, to the complex manufacturing process of a light bulb, all assembled and scaled across the country, is insanely complicated. The easiest way to simplify is reduce extraneous factors. By reducing all considerations regarding manufacturing, power delivery, and electrical physics - yes, lightbulbs are very simple, you could teach a 5 year old. Include the underlying factors, however, and you'll make even most intelligent adult's heads spin.

Issues of morality are no different; the view that things are simple is laden with innate assumptions regarding morality, sexuality, freedom, individuality, etc. - if you exclude the building blocks of your innate assumptions, sure, the issue is "simple".

Until you run into someone who also excludes their innate assumptions and says the opposite "Nudity displaying in media or art is clearly wrong, it's not that complicated, depraved people just make it an issue". Well, things just got more complicated if you are dealing with two intelligent people that want to have a meaningful conversation. Or they get more violent or aggressive if you are dealing with two people entrenched in their assumptions and unable to dialogue.

All this to say, nudity in media/art IS gray, but not merely because lots of people have different views. The issue is not simple, it's a complicated and meaningful debate. Any genuine intellectual approach to the issue holds it with a certain level of respect.
 
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Sure, but then the filmmakers are choosing to set a scene at that location. Why is that choice made? That's really the crux of the question.

The choice is no more significant than the color of the swimsuits worn (or not)
The question is why are you making something out of it?
You seem to be the one with the problem about nudity.
 
The choice is no more significant than the color of the swimsuits worn (or not)
The question is why are you making something out of it?
You seem to be the one with the problem about nudity.

Not at all, but this goes back to some of the very first responses in this thread. Everything in art is a choice. If you choose to show something or not show something or to set a scene at a certain place or not these are all choices. They are not random, and the significance of any given choice is based not only in the context within the content but in the atmsphere of the audience who will view it.

I'm not saying I have any problem with nudity. I'm saying that it has significance. To ignore this is to be in denial.
 
I think nudity is okay in a given context. Age appropriate and it's context accordingly. There are general exceptions as in art or unintentional moments. Overall just don't show the boobies unless they have some purpose...as in 'this movie has boobies in it'.

The other genitalia being shown, and unless otherwise specified, is adult in nature, in general, depending on the context and is a no-no.

Is there a global rule book for this? I'd like to say ''Use common sense and err on the safe side" but ofcourse there isn't any in this case. Whatever sells and what you can get away with because I don't know. -Beers.
 
The choice is no more significant than the color of the swimsuits worn (or not)
The question is why are you making something out of it?
You seem to be the one with the problem about nudity.

Morality is not so much the issue as natural and unavoidable human biological response to nudity as a stimulus. Is it intentional or not? Does it distract from the content and context of the scene as a whole or does it enhance it? If it just distracts then it doesn't belong there.

If topless sunbathers in the background distract your audience enough that they miss a conversation at a poolside table critical to plot or character development, then the scene has failed.

It is not a casual thing and it is a creative choice that must be considered carefully.
 
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@filmguy from a previous post. Something in that one reply brought back a memory of when I was in an interview once and after apparently ranting while responding to a question she sais "It's a simple question." Kinda made me laugh right now. Sometimes we can over think things or so I'm told. Lol.
 
I think nudity is okay in a given context. Age appropriate and it's context accordingly. There are general exceptions as in art or unintentional moments. Overall just don't show the boobies unless they have some purpose...as in 'this movie has boobies in it'.

The other genitalia being shown, and unless otherwise specified, is adult in nature, in general, depending on the context and is a no-no.

Is there a global rule book for this? I'd like to say ''Use common sense and err on the safe side" but ofcourse there isn't any in this case. Whatever sells and what you can get away with because I don't know. -Beers.

There is no Global Rule Book. That is the point. In many parts of the world nudity per say is normal and accepted. It is not seen as wrong/dirty or sexual unless it is specifically in and erotic setting.
In some countries usually autocratic states or those with a heavy fundamental religious background nudity equals sex and they have a problem with sex. They USA due to it's history falls in to this group where as Europe falls into the other. China is autocratic and has (slightly different) but more levels of restrictions.

One amusing example is Japan where they have all sorts of hard core porn but they pixilate the genitals but only just. Go figure... it makes sense to them.

As has been pointed out many times it is a grey area in each of the 192 countries on earth and each of those grey areas is different. I posted a link to an interview with Helen Mirrem on a film she did that was shown un cut all over Europe but had 20 minutes of cuts for the US version where nudity == sex. I suspect for China and other 20 minutes would have had to have been cut and in some countries it would not have been acceptable at all. :)
 
Reminds me of going to the cinema in Mysore, India in about 2002 - had a few hours to kill waiting for a train and the local cinema was showing a George Clooney film (can't remember the one).
It was an interesting experience, the place was packed and my friend was the only female there - every time a lady appeared on screen there was whistling and cheers and lots of chattering - the film itself never made any sense cause whenever George was about to kiss or embrace his love interest the film would cut to the next scene, quite often into the middle of a scene. After about 45 minutes the credits rolled and all the men jumped up and began cheering and whistling again. They seemed happy
Am sure the film should have lasted a bit longer than that, walked out a little puzzled and still with lots of time to wait for our train
 
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The other genitalia being shown, and unless otherwise specified, is adult in nature, in general, depending on the context and is a no-no.
.

Only if you are a Pope ( Paul IV (1555-1559). Pope Innocent X (1644-1655) and Pope Pius IX (1857) who took a literal reading of one of the books of the Bible. It was unpopular at the time and seen as criminal since. However some religious fanatics still say there is something wrong with genitals. Most non Abrahamic religions take the opposite view. So the answers are deep seated in culture.
 
@JAMedia. The big thing I think is if the images are sexual in nature or not and that's where I think the problems arise. I personally have no issues with current laws. The current restrictions in place seem fine to me.
It's a big subject and thus the number of comments in this thread. :) There's always going to be exceptions to everything and it's just hard to put everything into one basket and say 'This is right and this is wrong.' -Cheers.
 
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@JAMedia. The big thing I think is if the images are sexual in nature or not and that's where I think the problems arise. I personally have no issues with current laws. The current restrictions in place seem fine to me..

You mean you are happy with the local laws in Canada? the laws and culture in the 190+ other countries will differ (in both directions)
 
Yes I'm okay with the current laws in Canada. I do understand that laws in other countries can be less than forgiving.
 
Yes I'm okay with the current laws in Canada. I do understand that laws in other countries can be less than forgiving.

Also in a LOT of other countries they are far more relaxed. On the whole I would say more are relaxed than less forgiving.
 
When I went to Mexico at 18 in 1977...man...topless woman everywhere. My eyeballs were dragging in the sand for two weeks. I couldn't believe it. Beautiful woman . After 2 weeks it was normal like 'Okay, there goes another beautiful topless lady' and I didn't even look over anymore because you turn your head and there was another one. Hahaha. Just weird back then. A different life. Haha. -Beers.
//Man, at the time I was drinking here in the swamps (Canada) and playing in a s*%tty rock band and then get that thrown that in my face. If I can get drunk and talk to somebody. Lolll.
 
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When I went to Mexico at 18 in 1977...man...topless woman everywhere. My eyeballs were dragging in the sand for two weeks. I couldn't believe it. Beautiful woman . After 2 weeks it was normal like 'Okay, there goes another beautiful topless lady' and I didn't even look over anymore because you turn your head and there was another one. Hahaha. Just weird back then. A different life. Haha. -Beers.

Quite so... When I mentioned a scene shot by a hotel swimming pool some one else said it was a deliberate decsision to show topless women. However where the scene was set as with your location in Mexico it would have to be a deliberate desision to cover up the people. The nudity was "normal".

However to the original question a dozen pages back: why do we have to "justify" nudity (not sex or erotism) even where it is normal and natural where as you don't need to justify violence or swearing. In fact a lot of "Hollywood" films seem to be end to end violence and swearing but no nudity let alone sex.

The constant portrayal of violence and swearing does more damage (in de-sensitising) you those watching than most porn ever does. Never mind a little nudity.
 
If the movie is set in mexico in 1977, then I suppose that's a justification to have topless women wandering through the backgrounds...

But I think a larger issue is how these things are framed. Usually when you cut to the strip club scene in the mobster movie, the establishing shot is a medium of the dancing naked woman's torso, then she leaves frame and you rack focus to the mobsters watching her. something like that. it's not like a casual part of the scene, it's usually meant to be a focal point with an erotic pay-off.

I'm not saying that's a SIN, but if it's not appropriate, tasteful, and original, then I think it's at best a cheap thrill and at worst demeaning to the actress and women in general
 
Speaking of strip club scenes I recently posted a YT vid here that did have a brief topless scene from a movie. As you say it's in how it's framed and the intent. :)
re: I Drink Alone - George Thorogood and the Destroyers: at 1:40 to 1:50. I agree with you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E9ydw_aDMg
//And over thinking it: Maybe that part of the knock off video was whatever but the films intent I think was justified.
 
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