JAMedia
Well-known member
Why does it need a "justification" which was the original question?
BTW as they would normally be there what would be your justification for removing them?
Why must nudity be justified?
- Thread starter roxics
- Start date
BTW as they would normally be there what would be your justification for removing them?
Gord.T
Still "Senior Member"
hahaha. Let's not get into that argument. He didn't mean it that way. He was just starting off as a place to expand on as an example. This **** happens sometimes when trying to respond in 2 sentences or less. He was being cool and either you get it or you dont. I.D.K. He's cool. Like I say... Lolll.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
Actually that was my comment and I believe you're mischaracterizing it, or perhaps I didn't clearly make my point. In this example the choice would be in setting the scene around a swimming pool in 1977 Mexico, because at such a setting there would likely be topless women. Setting a scene to take place ANYWHERE is a choice, one that should be justified as contextual within the story and/or themes of the movie. I don't have any problem with it, just noting that these things do not happen randomly. Everything in a movie is a choice, or at least it should be.
Here's an example not entirely unrelated to this. In Ridley Scott's film American Gangster, there is a scene where women are working in an illegal drug lab. In order to be sure that they weren't stealing any of the goods, the mobsters made them work naked. This is seen quite briefly in the film, and it's not shown for any particular sexual excitement. It illustrated how these people were subjugated and yes, it is based on actual events directly contextual to the story. There aren't nude men because that is part of the sexual politics of what was happening in the story. I'm sure the film would have worked fine without this brief scene, and I'm also quite sure that this wasn't Sir Ridley thinking, "Oh, a chance to show some skin!" It was a choice, and one that makes sense in the body of the film. It enrichens the themes of the movie, it lends depth to the study of the main character.
If someone wears a green shirt in a movie, this does not happen by chance. The costume designer has considered various styles and colors of clothing. There is thought about the nature of the character and how this shirt would look on the particular actor. There's consideration about what other characters are wearing, what the locations look like where this shirt will be worn. Tests are done and wardrobe choices are approved by production design and the director. Sometimes for trickier visuals the cinematographer is involved, and there may be preproduction shoot days with full lighting, hair, makeup and wardrobe to shoot tests. It's not just a matter of a writer typing "green shirt" or an actor showing up that day with it on because that was the first thing in the closet at home. These are highly considered choices, or at least they should be. If it's good enough for a shirt why isn't it good enough for nudity?
ahalpert
Major Contributor
If the scene is a board room meeting in manhattan and the secretary walks in to bring files to the executive and she's topless, then that would seem unjustified, right?
What about the same meeting except now it's set in a strip club. Ok, the nudity is justified by the setting, but now the setting isn't justified by the story.
Both examples would be obvious attempts to insert nudity for the sake of sheer spectacle.
And yes, the same can be said of graphic violence, although the associated ethical context and the impact on the audience is different. Maybe in my first example, the topless secretary brings the executive a gun and he casually shoots someone in the head in the middle of their shareholders meeting. Now what kind of movie is this.
The broader issue with casual nudity of this kind is that it cultivates the idea that women are pleasure objects who exist primarily for men to look at. But again, it's not just about the nudity but also about the framing.
Exactly. You as a filmmaker are either in control of your creative decisions or not. Choosing a setting where nudity is normal is making a choice. It might be a political or cultural statement as in the above example. It might just be a pool party where bodies are beautiful. But it is all a choice that has to be justified one way or another. It has to be considered from many aspects, including who the anticipated audience is and what the related cultural tolerance for nudity might be.
JAMedia
Well-known member
SO you would have to justify *every* decision?
Several of you seem to have the opinion that nudity needs more of a justification than other things.
Like shooting a daylight scene in daylight.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Nobody covers their children's eyes when the sun pokes out from behind a cloud
But yes, if there were a scene set in a parking garage at night that was suddenly bathed in the golden rays of a sunset, it would not be justified no matter how beautiful it was
JAMedia
Well-known member
And no one covers their children eyes on natural nudity except in repressive societies.
I noticed this a few years ago when watching (normal free to air ) TV in Europe with some American friends. They thought several early evening programs were "appalling" for occasional nudity that no one else in the room even noticed. eg semi nude sunbathers around a hotel pool.
As noted many pages back the US was started by a bunch of Religious Fanatics who have coloured the way polite US society works even now. This is why nudity == sex and both are "a sin".
It is interesting that a friend of mine who has worked on studying propaganda says you can learn a lot abut a country and it's culture by the style and type of it's mainstream pornography as much (if not more) than it's main stream public broadcasting. As in one shows the public face and the other the reality of the underbelly. He had a facilitating (academic) study on it.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
Yes. You should justify everything. That’s being a filmmaker.
You seem to be the one that has the opinion that nudity requires less justification. I don’t feel it needs more justification, but it’s at least equal.
As for a daylight scene in daylight, either you try to fake the look to appear as daylight or you try to work the timeline so it seems to make sense. Because you still want to justify your decisions. I am struggling to find why you have an issue with this concept.
paulears
Veteran
Some people don’t have issues with nudity in any circumstance. Others don’t have issues if appropriate and others simply hate it, no exceptions. Including it surely is just a commercial decision. It can put your family product into a new category, so is a restriction on figures and income. The only US TV series I really like us NCIS. The channel it is on edit it because they don’t want the gore and autopsy detail on their channel. CBS and DVD have these scenes but terrestrial TV here cut it. Presumably cut it or font run it? It is simply a choice.