Why can't SD cards replace p2?

First: Flash XDR: http://www.convergent-design.com/CD_Products_FlashXDR.htm

XDR_reader300.jpg


HD-SDI to 100Mb/s MPEG2 4:2:2 (approxmately 3x XDCAM EX) for $5000. Uses 4 CF cards for 2+ hours recording. Also I-frame only to 160Mb/s. $5000.

And the nanoFlash XDR: http://www.convergent-design.com/downloads/nanoFlash/nanoFlash Brochure.pdf

Similar except uses HDMI or HD-SDI and converts, loses some features, only two CF cards. $3500.

The max access speed on the SDHCs is about 45-50Mb/s. On the CFs it is over 250Mb/s.

Maybe the answer is a new CF design? There is one called CFast that moves to a SATA interface with 300MB/s potential.
 
The bendability of the pins for CF cards is a good point.

Don't P2 cards also use pins? Why don't we hear about bent pins with P2 slots?
 
Mike Harvey said:
But I'm thinking of the scenario of where a photog is out shooting a bad car accident on I-5 at 10 pm in a cold, heavy downpour and drops the card onto the concrete and then someone accidentally steps on it. Fairly plausible scenario. I would think a P2 would hold up to that a lot more than SD.
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As far as the HMC150 goes, I would have rather seen them go with CF cards. They just feel more solid and the size is larger. The SDHC cards are almost too small to handle.
 
combatentropy said:
The bendability of the pins for CF cards is a good point.

Don't P2 cards also use pins? Why don't we hear about bent pins with P2 slots?
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Because they were designed to hold up to professional use. They have an extended entry design that makes sure the card can't possibly be off-axis so they line up perfectly with the pins. They're warranted for 30,000 insertion cycles. In the 3.5 years since the HVX200 came out, I've never heard of a single bent pin.
 
I am not the biggest P2 fan but it seems to work reliably all the time. This is a professional format. It is going to cost more! Yes Panasonic is making money on P2 that was the plan. If you want that proven reliability then get that P2. My biggest gripe is it doesn't slide into a mac pro like SXS. But neither does a HDCam tape. Pro formats are stubborn like that. :)
 
Nik Manning said:
My biggest gripe is it doesn't slide into a mac pro like SXS. But neither does a HDCam tape. Pro formats are stubborn like that. :)
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Really? That's why you should have gotten a PC. Mine takes PCMCIA AND HDCam tape.

It also accepts U-Matic. Really. Honest. :thumbsup:
 
NEW ! Extreem Low Bandwidth Progressive Camera

NEW ! Extreem Low Bandwidth Progressive Camera

studio1972 said:
Hi Barry, - - - - Just my 2p. - Regards - Stuart
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Ruff would like to point out to those of you who are not in the UK , that studio1972 does not have access to a new camera that no one else has seen yet ; even though such a 2p frame rate would probably be able to use HalfSpeed SD cards.

The 2p he mentions should read as "two penneth" or would translate to " two cents worth " , and is NOT a new frame rate ! ( I wonder what 4i would look like ? ! )

Well I'm glad that's cleared up ! ( ohh ! I'm so funny ! pass me another tablet. )
 
Justyn said:
. . . here's an analogy that is quite fitting. I bought a Microboards printfactory mass CD/DVD printer.. the first generation. Was a great printer because it used HP off the shelf ink that I could buy anywhere. Well they figured that they were loosing tons of money by not having a proprietary microboards ink so on the 2nd generation they made one using microboards ink... It was a dismal failure in sales and customer satisfaction.. so much so that the older first version is still saught after, and in a lot of ways is worth more even though it has less features... . The ink was twice as much and terrible in comparission...
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Justyn, nice analogy and comparison. I too agree wholeheartedly. Proprietary means more money, lots of limits, and usually less options and lots of complications. For us P2 proprietary meant a L-O-T of work. We liked the image but not the poor low light performance with the HVX200 and even the 200A and trying to eat that DVCProHD was a pistol.

We've tried the AVCintra, AVCam, and AVCHD (aren't those pretty much the same?) and don't find that the image is "that much" of anything special over other HD formats. Pretty much these days HD is HD and it looks amazingly WONDERFUL . . YES!
 
There is no doubt that P2s are better than CF. Sort of like Mercedes to Honda. However, they come with the price of a Mercedes.

When they were first introduced (weren't the P2s 2GB and 4GB then?) their SATA arrangement provided performance (4GB, 100MB/s) that SD and CF couldn't.

Fast forward to 2009. CF can provide those speeds and storage. Yes, P2 is still more reliable and rugged, however at a high cost. How many of us drive Mercedes?
 
drdimento said:
Justyn, nice analogy and comparison. I too agree wholeheartedly. Proprietary means more money, lots of limits, and usually less options and lots of complications. For us P2 proprietary meant a L-O-T of work. We liked the image but not the poor low light performance with the HVX200 and even the 200A and trying to eat that DVCProHD was a pistol.

We've tried the AVCintra, AVCam, and AVCHD (aren't those pretty much the same?) and don't find that the image is "that much" of anything special over other HD formats. Pretty much these days HD is HD and it looks amazingly WONDERFUL . . YES!
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Thanks bro.. and I agree with you there. HD is HD and there's little in the end result that's different between the 150 and the 170... so why not buy two 150s instead of one 170.. For me the big detractor to P2 was in doing multicam concerts like I do. Wrangling P2, renting P2 cards, and offloading while shooting became almost as much energy as putting on the production. Now with the SD cards I can shoot shoot shoot and never have to rent another P2 card. There's something wrong with having to spend 450 bucks to rent two 32 gig cards for a weekend shoot. I did that a bunch of times and sure it would be nice to have bought them... but with that cost alone I'm 2/3 of the way towards getting the HMC.


Anything I miss about the HVX. YES. The timelapse option. Anything else: NO!!!
 
David. I shoot all kinds of different formats depending upon what I'm using it for. I've shot some 720, 24 but mostly I shoot 720p30, 720,60 as I do a lot of broadcast stuff and stuff for the web too. I had a nice accident a few weeks back and shot something in 1080, 24p and it looked awesome. I came to this camera conditioned to shoot mostly 720 from my HVX days.. and also due to Barry's recommendation of the sweet spot on the camera.. and lastly due to the file sizes. However I really do think that the 1080,24p has some real merits and I don't see too much in terms of compromises from it being more compressed. I really like it and have shot a few things in 1080.. and shoot last night I even shot some late night low light stuff in 60i to help a friend match his footage better to mine.


I think that each depends upon what you want to do and whether it's broadcast and or stand-alone.


What kind of stuff are you shooting?
 
Can you take a still life...detailed flowers or something equivalent, and shoot it in both and post them? What I am interested in doing is evaluating the down scaling interpolation. It has to be a fairly quick operation, since it may need to take place 60 times per second. It could be that down scaling offsets the loss from compression.
 
SDXC Card-The next big thing and the first one is on display.

SDXC (eXtended Capacity) is a next-generation SD card, with capacities up to 2 TB (2048GB), and read/write speed up to 50MB/s initially and up to 104MB/s in the future, with a possible 300MB/s as a long term roadmap.


http://www.pretec.com/epages/Store.storefront/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Store.Pretec/Products/"news-March%2003,%202009.no.1"
 
To answer the OPs question, it looks like you really need a SDXC card to match the P2 cards speed performance. So SDHC is not a replacement.

So the question is, will newer P2 cameras also have a SDXC slot for those shoots where you don't intend to take the card out afterwards and stomp all over it?

Well, I seriously doubt it, the P2 card is a major revenue generator for Panasonic and if you were to give most people in the video business (or any business) an option between safety or low cost, low cost wins most of the time.

It's a good thing China hasn't come across the P2 card yet or there would be a slew of lead coated $75 P2 cards.
 
http://www.thestandard.com/predictions/suggestions/first-sdxc-capable-device-hd-digital-camcorder

The current SDHC specification only allows for capacity up to 32GB. At the 2009 International CES on January 7, the SDXC specification was announced by SD Association. Boasting a capacity of up to an eye-popping 2TB, it marks an disruptive technology evolution to the consumer market. It is anticipated that the first SDXC will be 64GB in capacity as confirmed by Panasonic's announcement to produce 64GB SDXC memory card.

The first consumer product that comes to mind to make use of the higher portable memory capacity is the HD camcorder. With the demands of HD resolution recording and longer duration, it is the most nattural first adopter of this next generation technology. Other potential products include high end professional cameras, set top box (includes gaming consoles, streaming content devices) and portable devices (PDA, PMP, etc)

Prediction: Will HD digital camcorder be the first consumer product to support SDXC memory card?
 
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