whoa ...I don´t know what planet you guys are on but here on Earth, no one, that means nobody, that means nadia makes cameras with other peoples´ proprietary mount. That said , short of adapters, there´s ebay ! And there´s waiting for Canon to pick up the fumble and hanging on to the lenses. I´ve got 3 Ls´and 4 other ef lenses and I wouldn´t sell even when I buy Sony, and I´ll at minimum buy an a33 hoping for an a77 or a99 next year. The camera with kit lens cost less than a 550d body !! And Sony does, despite videographers opinions here, make some nice glass. There´s alot of happycampers with a850s´and a900s´. And it´s funny the opinion of Sony as just a playstation-like walkman-maker. I don´t hear those opinions about Sonys´pro video cameras. When I bought my z1, there were 1000s´of buyers lining the road for the fx-1 and z1. But now you guys are saying they just are good for CONSUMER products. Baloney ! If Canon doesn´t want to get caught with it´s pants down, it better stop releasing jetsonjunk prototypes. That said , the best image always wins !
Why Canon will rule the camera world...
- Thread starter DigitalBard
- Start date
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Sigh.
"I don´t hear those opinions about Sonys´pro video cameras. "
Well, you are hearing i from me.
Sony hobbles it's higher end shoulder mount camcorders, makes interfacing with the firewire interface proprietary rather than conforming to the 1394 specs, and refuses to listen to the end user regarding features they like to see in upcoming professional gear.
Sony's proprietary protocols in the video industry are well known, and their customer service is a joke.
You claim not to be a "fanboy", but despite your protestations, the label sticks.
"I don´t hear those opinions about Sonys´pro video cameras. "
Well, you are hearing i from me.
Sony hobbles it's higher end shoulder mount camcorders, makes interfacing with the firewire interface proprietary rather than conforming to the 1394 specs, and refuses to listen to the end user regarding features they like to see in upcoming professional gear.
Sony's proprietary protocols in the video industry are well known, and their customer service is a joke.
You claim not to be a "fanboy", but despite your protestations, the label sticks.
I would say... you sir, have had one too many hours in front of the playstation while listening to a walkman...
DigitalBard
Well-known member
I gotta stop reading while drinking my soda... At least the wife bought a new roll of paper towels last night.
DigitalBard
Well-known member
Then Sony needs to put out an adapter that allows AF with non Sony lenses. Because the obvious future is AF while shooting and it aint gonna happen with Sony, Panasonic, Pentax or anyone else if you don't have their lenses.
If Sony starts shipping the ultimate DSLR tomorrow with every feature I could want for under $1000, it's gonna require me to use their proprietary lenses to use those features... which now makes it a $5000 investment to replace my existing gear.
Sure, if you want to bash Canon for being slow, I'll jump on that bandwagon. I'm not totally happy with the 60D either. But Canon got me with the T2i and then put a nail in my coffin with the thousands I've invested in AF and IS lenses. A smart move on their part. They KNOW that just like me, the overwhelming majority of Canon owners will sit and wait for them to give us what we really want. Oh sure, we'll ***** and whine about it, but we'll wait.
And I'll also say this... When you don't have what you want, you find ways to still accomplish what you need to do. And that process makes you a better film maker or photographer. Most of the people here ***** and whine about what they don't have instead of actually using what they do have to actually get things done. (I am also guilty of that upon occasion.)
As much as I love my T2i, it has severe limitations that have given me no end of headaches, but I learn to live with them and/or get around them. When I can eventually afford a 7D then it'll just be icing on my cake making things easier. But the lack of weather proofing and other features does not prevent me from going outside and shooting what I need to shoot, only apathy does that.
thisisapocalypse
Well-known member
Very curious what evidence there is for this - Canon has been the most innovative SLR maker over the last 25 years. Unable to move forward? Everyone else has followed in Canons footsteps, they took a massive risk when they left the FD platform and moved to the EOS mount, but in doing so they gave SLR users arguably the best mount in existence.
Canon was first with ultrasonic style autofocusing, the flash system Canon introduced on the EOS platform was revolutionary when it was introduced - Canon has always pushed the envelope when it comes to making fast lenses for SLRs, Canon was first with SLRs and image stabilization, and now we have great video on Canon DSLRs...
Nikon has followed Canon in nearly every aspect here - I like Nikon cameras, don't get me wrong, but Canon has introduced so much technology that we take for granted today, like its no big deal, but they are the ones who took the risks to get us there, and they offer more video capable DSLRs than anyone else on the market - they're obviously trying to figure this out, introducing models left and right, each time giving us a little more of what we want, continuously upgrading the 5DMKii - I just don't see how one can make this claim about Canon.
I'm a GH1 shooter but as a photojournalist I used Canon EOS SLRs because they were so ahead of the curve. I think both systems are solid and it comes down to personal preference and what feels good in the hand, and Canons and Nikons really do feel different. Even still, Nikon has not caught up to Canon when it comes to lenses.
thisisapocalypse
Well-known member
You are...fully aware that it's not entirely up to the camera makers when it comes to something like this. The way auto lenses communicate with the bodies (Canons for example) is proprietary and to use that mount/electronics, whatever, the other camera maker has to license it to them, and at least at this time it doesn't seem to be any financial interest for any of these companies to do this when it comes to these SLRs, all these companies make their money by selling their own lenses.
Broadcast is a totally different world - obviously, but here's you're talking about more standardization and lenses that are incredibly expensive that need to be able to work across platforms.
If you remember, back in the late '70s to early '90s there were whole slew of cheap 'n' chearfull SLRs that used the Pentax "K" bayonette mount , and before that, in the '60's and '70s the M42 mount rooled the roost, that's why there're so many M42 lenses around now.
Dave
thisisapocalypse
Well-known member
That's only because Pentax was willing to license the K-mount. There's nothing proprietary about the M42 mount.
Canon was forced by Nikon into releasing the 5dmkll with video....before it was ready. At this juncture, all of Canons´APS sensor cameras have almost identical video featuresets. What progress was made with the 60d ? ZERO ! Oops , it does have manual audio gain . There were rumors of ¨constant AF ¨that didn´t materialize. You can see their conservative nature in their video camera line . They waited for almost 2 years to release the XL1 after Sony released the vx-1000 and more or less this has been the pattern ever since. Hey I love Canon dslrs´. As I said I have two, but progress waits for no man, or company. If Canon doesn´t at least show a hybrid prototype at Photokina , Sony will take that market by the horns. They´ve shown they now know how to make sensors as good as Canons´and if they´re the ones who will finally bring the future now then what ? Photographers and Videographers are luddites by definition. They hang on to their methods like proprietary software developers ! They invest their money and soul in an equipment pathway and hate to be forewarned of a new Northwest Passage. But Sony has in the past 8 months shown they are willing to lead the technology forward. Also Panasonic is there at the party, but the problem with Panasonic is m4/3 vs. FF. Pany will never release a FF camera period. That leaves Canon, Nikon, and Sony as the only possibilities. Don´t shoot the messenger !
thisisapocalypse
Well-known member
FF35 is great, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's the make or break factor when it comes to DSLR video m4/3 is still very, very close to the same size as Super35 - in all honesty there are serious advantages to both FF35 and Super35 sized sensors. FF35 - the possibility of super-duper wide angle images - Super35, you can shoot wide open and still have some DOF to play with if an actor moves around in the frame.
All that aside - I still have to say that I find it a little amusing that Canon is the only one who offers a FF35 sensor that shoots 1080/24, offer 4-5 bodies with video capability, are introducing models left and right even and *they* are the ones who are lagging behind
rogar-BlackEye(DBG they've got to work this stuff out with some trial and error, I think the way they are doing it, from a business perspective is pretty smart - like the flip out LCD on the 60D - it makes sense for them to test out a few features on different cameras, the stakes are extremely high for them when it comes to their pro bodies, they have to get those bodies right and they've got to be workhorses for years.Aside from all of this, we are incredibly blessed with the options that we do have, that we can go out and shoot with right now.
HDSLRs are still in serious-infancy and folks act like they should have been perfect 35mm Arri replacements from Day 1, and not just that, they should be Arri + Sound Devices 722 replacements from Day 1...for $2000.
Ben_B
Veteran
That's why I prefer panasonic on the pro end even though sometimes the sonys can put out a better image...and why I actually like shooting with the HVX and friends more than the EX1 and friends...even though I do miss that beautiful LCD.
thisisapocalypse
Well-known member
Exactly - the HDSLR revolution has made so many things possible for just about any budget - the fact that in my case, we're able to make a feature film for $10K with an image quality that can even come close to looking like we shot it on film is pretty amazing.
I personally shoot a GH1 and absolutely love the gorgeous video it can produce, but honestly, it doesn't matter a twit canon vs nikon vs panasonic vs... etc, etc... a film done poorly in the hands of a wannabe with a canon, panasonic, nikon,.. is just that, a poorly done film. I'd rather have the talent than the best camera any time... hands down. Camera's are camera's.. they can produce crap or gems. Talent behind the equipment is priceless.
thisisapocalypse
Well-known member
Absolutely - what you are shooting is infinitely more important than what camera you are shooting on.
The bodies are just one component here, and all are good enough for a lot of things if you use them right - if only folks worried about writing, lighting, directing as much as they worried about rolling shutter - each camera has shortcomings that are well known and established and it's also well known what to do in order to maximize their performance.
GH13 all the way!
Kodak, Fuji and Sigma all made SLR's or DSLR's with mounts from other companies. The Kodak 14 series (both F-mount and EF-mount) were Sigma bodies. Up till recently, Sigma had a EF mount film SLR.
Cosina, Zeiss and Epson all make/sell M-mount cameras, all still in production.
You can also find various F-mount SLR's by other manufacturers in the Far East and former USSR. The Minolta MC/MD was widely used in China under many different brands.
The Leica Screw Mount (LTM) was used by quite a few different manufacturers, including Canon.
So that's about 70 years of history of companies making cameras for other companies' proprietary mounts.
ok - eating crow - yes kodak made the dcs-14n & c in 2001, which for it´s time was a righteous giant of a camera , and Fujis dslr with nikon mount now also all but buried and dead- however going back to the original assumption that for some reason Sony would be inclined to build cameras with canon or nikon mounts is still absurd - at this juncture I don´t think Nikon or Canon would be inclined to license it´s mount , well, Nikon might if Sony is still making it´s sensors, which seems to be in doubt lately - never knew sigma made an ef mount film slr however - thanks for keeping me in line-k
yes exactly ! thanks for that.:thumbsup:
I assumed he already knew this, but then again it's too dangerous to assume anything these days...