Park Edwards
Veteran
no you can't. you can only assume frame rate under interpret footage which is not removing pulldown. it will skip or repeat frames. the option to remove 24pv pulldown is greyed out.
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Which Post Workflow = No Intermediate Conversion?
- Thread starter Kholi
- Start date
no you can't. you can only assume frame rate under interpret footage which is not removing pulldown. it will skip or repeat frames. the option to remove 24pv pulldown is greyed out.
John Caballero
Veteran
I just tried a watch.impress file with Edius 5 and the final result seems pretty good. I have no idea if I am doing this right but I opened a 720p 24 timeline. Dumped 720p60 footage there. Clicked the file went to clip>properties>videoinfo>framerate and changed it to 23.97 then rendered to mpeg 2 to look at it. The rendered file shows frame rate of 23.97. Is this correct? I am doing something productive? 'Cause I have no idea.
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No, what I meant is pulldown is removed on export. So don't even interpret the footage in Premiere just import it as is at 29.97. Then Sstup a 23.976 sequence at 1080, basically choose the 108024P AVCHD preset. Dump one of your 29.97 1080 GH1 clips on the timeline and render it. Now export the clip to prores at 1080 23.976 progressive. This removes the pulldown leaving you with a 24P progressive clip. You could cut a whole 1080 sequence and then export it and it should be fine with no pulldown.
Or you could go straight to Adobe Media Encoder if you want to remove the pulldown on specific files before editing in Premiere or Final Cut or whatever other program you want to use.
Park Edwards
Veteran
it's not removing pulldown. scrub through your clip. the clip will say 23.978, but you'll either have dropped/missing frames or repeated frames. which when there's people walking or any type of movement they are jumping from one place to another. there is no automatic pulldown within premiere when exporting or in media encoder.
Definitely some jumpiness in it. I wasn't seeing any ghosting or leftover interlacing so I thought it was working correctly. I'm going to play with this more, I'd like to think there's a mac workflow that doesn't require any transcoding...
John Caballero
I just tried a watch.impress file with Edius 5 and the final result seems pretty good. I have no idea if I am doing this right but I opened a 720p 24 timeline. Dumped 720p60 footage there. Clicked the file went to clip>properties>videoinfo>framerate and changed it to 23.97 then rendered to mpeg 2 to look at it. The rendered file shows frame rate of 23.97. Is this correct? I am doing something productive? 'Cause I have no idea.
If you drop video directly to TL, not to Bin, then it's useless to change clip's framerate - nothing will change. Of course you will get 23.97 output, but with some frame blending.
There are 2 ways of treating 720p60 video on 720p23.97 timeline:
1) Drop clip to Bin, move to its video properties, set 23.97 framerate and place it on timeline. You'll get some nice slo-mo.
2) In clip's video settings change field order from "progressive" to "TFF" and you'll get crisp 23.97p footage without any frame blending. Strange but true.
BTW, did you get smooth playback?
I just tried a watch.impress file with Edius 5 and the final result seems pretty good. I have no idea if I am doing this right but I opened a 720p 24 timeline. Dumped 720p60 footage there. Clicked the file went to clip>properties>videoinfo>framerate and changed it to 23.97 then rendered to mpeg 2 to look at it. The rendered file shows frame rate of 23.97. Is this correct? I am doing something productive? 'Cause I have no idea.
If you drop video directly to TL, not to Bin, then it's useless to change clip's framerate - nothing will change. Of course you will get 23.97 output, but with some frame blending.
There are 2 ways of treating 720p60 video on 720p23.97 timeline:
1) Drop clip to Bin, move to its video properties, set 23.97 framerate and place it on timeline. You'll get some nice slo-mo.
2) In clip's video settings change field order from "progressive" to "TFF" and you'll get crisp 23.97p footage without any frame blending. Strange but true.
BTW, did you get smooth playback?
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Park Edwards
Veteran
it'll drive you insane. i know! i'd like to think there was a PC workflow as well, but AVCHD is not very user friendly.
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Park Edwards
Veteran
Kholi, so far the best option is to use AE or cineform to remove pulldown. I honestly would have to suggest cineform. AE does do pulldown, but it's not nearly as efficient, nor as fast. However, you can edit natively if you were to just cut your files on a 1080 60i timeline without the need for an intermediate codec, but pulldown is going to be your biggest brick wall. My thoughts is to:
Open a AVCHD 1080 60i sequence. Drop your files/Edit/Save Sequence/Import Sequence to AE/Remove Pulldown/Export Lossless Codec/
Open a new 1080p 24p sequence. Drop you file/Always de-interlace/Export Final Output.
Personally it takes about 15secs to convert a 30sec cineform file and then I can just avoid all that hassle of all of the above. Essentially it's the same as using cineform, but instead of using cineform first, you're using AE to do it last.
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John Caballero
Veteran
I did on the MPEG 2 and the AVI renders but I have to try it with different footage. It was a slow left to right pan of ancient buildings, I guess they are, that was in the watch.impress review. It look good to me but I guess I need more in the footage, people or cars. I will eventually try thru the bin, etc. like you described. The problem is I will need the faster computer for the AVCHD to actually play. But is a start. Not many people around here work with Edius I suppose but it is a great program. Thanks for your help and we will keep working for a smooth workflow by the time we get the camera.
SonicStates
Well-known member
John did you download my stuff. I've got plenty of shots with people, cars, fast pans etc... It may help you evaluate a bit better. Remember at that stage I was totally unclear about the shutter speed issue so there is only 1 clip (I think) that is at it's proper shutter. I'm away from the office comp so can't upload anything else at the moment but I am interested to see what your impressions are with an Edius work flow.
Cheers,
Sam
Cheers,
Sam
John Caballero
Veteran
I will tomorrow. Thanks.
Uwe Lansing
Veteran
Right. The best workflow i´ve found out so far on a PC, is to use AE or Procoder 3. If you have the Cs4 Production Premium it´s very easy to go with dynamic link (replace footage with ae-composition). PC3 makes a good job as well.
Park Edwards
Veteran
i'm going to test out PC3, but I believe Kholi's issue is getting around having to convert to an intermediate codec to remove pulldown. but this will be helpful to those that don't mind or spend the money on cineform...i'm testing now.
The gyst is that I'm hoping-- although it probably won't matter-- that cutting the MTS files directly then going to AE with those MTS files will yield a better image as far as interlace residue and banding goes.
May not even work, and if not then I'll go back to ProRes but if it looks ANY better I'll stick with CS4 and After Effects
May not even work, and if not then I'll go back to ProRes but if it looks ANY better I'll stick with CS4 and After Effects
I did and played around with the clips in Edius for a couple days.
Edius workflow for ths stuff is so easy! I can't say if it s easier than CS3 & A&E because I don't use them but I can't see how it could get any easier or faster than Edius Broadcast.
I agree. I believe that Toast will allow you to pull the H.264 (eg: MP4) video right out of the AVCHD stream without any re-encoding. Then you can use JES deinterlacer, and end up with a true, 24fps MP4 file.
I would hope that FCP will edit this natively. I know iMovie will. My camera records to MP4 files and I just drop them in my iMovie Events folder, start iMovie and edit away.
If what I've been told about Toast is correct, then this would be a pretty ideal workflow. You'd have no loss in quality (other than the deinterlacing) and
AVCHD is MP4 video in an MPEG-2 transport stream. If you take the MP4 video out of that transport stream, you can edit it natively with iMovie (and I would assume FCP).
All of the editors you're talking about are "native" only in the sense that they dont' do the conversion in advance. FCP wants you to put it into ProRes and iMovie wants you to put it in AIC, but this is to allow for better performance while editing. Apple figures its better to spend the time up front. These other editors make your computer do the work over and over, every time it displays a frame or runs the footage or renders a cut. H.264 is hassle enough to deal with for the NLE, putting it in a MPEG-2 transport stream and having to do both conversions all the time seems ot be a huge waste of CPU resources to me.
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I wish. I tried this method and it didn't work. Unless someone else has tried this method with some success it's a no go.