Which Post Workflow = No Intermediate Conversion?

what's your plan for pulldown? or is this for the 60p footage?
i'm using cs4 and avchd is not pretty. i'm running xp64 3ghz duo core 4gig ram.
you can't interpret footage any and de-interlacing on the fly is not an option.

dropping your 60p footage on a 24p timeline requires rendering. but this might all be different on a mac.
 
After Effects for Pulldown if I have to.

I'm not worried about the horsepower. Right now I'm on a 3.6 Ghz Quad, 4 Gigs of DDR2-1200 and plenty fast GPU power.

In about a week or two I'll be on a custom built i7 Octocore and farming the leftover quad.

Does CS4 deal with the 1080/24 straight? No pulldown options though?

Note: The Dual Core at the office required me to render my 60P on a 23.98 timeline. My home Desktop eats it with no render at all.
 
well, i'm not by any means an expert at cs4 sooo...this is what is up.

an AVCHD 1080p 24p timeline requires you to render, playback sucks, rendering takes a lot of time. nobody has told me how to remove pulldown, but! if i place the clip on the timeline and "de-interlace" the file, and render, it's fine. looks 24p no jerky frames.

on a AVCHD 1080p 60i timeline, no render required. playback is a little choppy, but manageable. i'm thinking of doing the first cut edit/color on that timeline drag the files onto the 1080p 24p timeline and de-interlace from there as my final render. i'll probably try this out tonight.

i'm still working on all the different sequences and haven't found one that works. i did convert my footage using avs converter and mpeg streamclip and that really helped but you're trying to avoid an intermediate codec.

i'll keep coming back if i find something. what i'm planning on doing is converting the clips to a more editable/likable format and de-interlace the footage in premiere on a 1080p 24p timeline to see if that works better. i'm pretty sure that's "removing pulldown" if i de-interlace the footage and the file will playback at 23.976 with no interlaced frames.

aye, aye, aye....AVCHD is such a headache.
 
Yea, it is. But it sounds like a horsepower issue to me. I would be okay with dealing with that over ingesting into Pro Res.

I think it might help a bit if we're working with AVCHD natively instead of converting to something else. Also working in a 16-bit space might help as well.

Thanks a lot Car3o!! I'm gonna go ahead and start hammering this new system together for some CS4.
 
Kholi said:
I don't want to be bothered with converting footage to ProRes.

Is there any Post Workflow that doesn't need to convert footage to something else? I'll gladly take it.
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The answer is pretty much ABA: Anything But Apple. EDIUS and EDIUS Neo, Premiere Pro CS4.1, Vegas 9, Pinnacle Studio, Ulead, Nero, and ... well, I'm not sure about Avid, but pretty much every editor other than FCP or iMovie allow native editing.

As to whether your system is fast enough to handle native editing or to make it practical, that's another question, of course.
 
I pretty much spent all of last night effing around with CS4. Good news, bad news.
Good news is you can edit natively, realtime and easily if you setup the right sequence. I opened a AVCHD 1080 60i timeline and the files scrubbed perfectly. But! removing pulldown is not an option in CS4. You either remove pulldown before you edit or you deal with it and remove pulldown last. You can however edit your files, cut and whatever first then open your timeline up in AE and export removing pulldown. That's for 1080p 24p. I haven't done anything with 720p yet. I might do that later on tonight.
 
Barry_Green said:
The answer is pretty much ABA: Anything But Apple. EDIUS and EDIUS Neo, Premiere Pro CS4.1, Vegas 9, Pinnacle Studio, Ulead, Nero, and ... well, I'm not sure about Avid, but pretty much every editor other than FCP or iMovie allow native editing.

As to whether your system is fast enough to handle native editing or to make it practical, that's another question, of course.
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Awesome. Thanks Car3o and Barry.

You know? Barry... you're like a prophet. I remember like two years ago how you were going on about native editing and how important it was, how Apple was SO behind.

And that sooner or later people would finally get the gyst and start migrating away if they didn't HAVE to have an Apple FCP workflow.

I get it now. No matter how nice ProRes is, I'm not doing anything that REQUIRES me to be on an Apple Platform, and if I need to there are always ways around it.

I'd rather go and cut native AVCHD files and upgrade my rig to match than go through converting. At least that way I know there's nothing else interfering with the quality of the footage. That and the pain in the neck it is to store extra data.

You can keep the RAW files and archive those instead of having to choose between or, worse, keep both the raw and converted. ick.

Car3o -- I'm okay with doing the pulldown later on or before. No big deal. But are you absolutely certain that there's no option in CS4? I mean, there isn't in Final Cut either. You have to go through Cinemal Tools and Compressor so, again, no big deal.
 
Car3o said:
I pretty much spent all of last night effing around with CS4. Good news, bad news.
Good news is you can edit natively, realtime and easily if you setup the right sequence. I opened a AVCHD 1080 60i timeline and the files scrubbed perfectly. But! removing pulldown is not an option in CS4. You either remove pulldown before you edit or you deal with it and remove pulldown last. You can however edit your files, cut and whatever first then open your timeline up in AE and export removing pulldown. That's for 1080p 24p. I haven't done anything with 720p yet. I might do that later on tonight.
Click to expand...

I played with Premiere today for the first time in years and thought it worked pretty well considering. One thing I noticed was that outputting from a 23.976 timeline looked better than cutting in a 29.976 and outputting at 23 in the end. Visually it looked better to my eyes cutting natively than using Prores in final cut.
 
There is not way to remove pulldown in Premiere. It has to be done in AE, but the sad part is, you can't de-interlace in AE, you have to do that in premiere. It's aggravating. I've exhuasted all possible routes and it comes down to just using cineform really to get true 24p out of 60i. 720p is a different story.
 
Not true, you can remove pulldown on export from premiere from a 23.976 sequence. Tried it today and it works.
 
Car3o said:
There is not way to remove pulldown in Premiere. It has to be done in AE, but the sad part is, you can't de-interlace in AE, you have to do that in premiere. It's aggravating. I've exhuasted all possible routes and it comes down to just using cineform really to get true 24p out of 60i. 720p is a different story.
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You can Interpret Footage in Premiere. Currently, that's the ONLY way to remove pulldown in a PP CS4 timeline, flags or no.
 
Barry_Green

>Originally Posted by John Caballero
>Barry, when you drop the 1080p24 from the GH1 to a 24p timeline in Edius 5 it removes the pulldown automatically? Thanks.

I don't think so, no. Not 100% sure though and haven't tried, but I would be surprised if it did because there aren't pulldown flags in the timecode.

You would be surprised but it definitely does :) Both for original .mts and CHQ .avi. At least 5th version. I tried on Sonic's files.

I bumped into another problem. The maximum quality AVCHD I can play in Edius with frame buffer filling on my 3,2GHz quad is 720p30. Original files from GH1 load 2 CPU cores to the top and ignore the existence of other 2 but performance isn't smooth. And of course no proper timeline scrubbing and ff/rewind.

It's strange, cause both ffdshow and coreavc codecs play them nicely using nearly 20-25% of CPU performance.
 
You would be surprised but it definitely does :) Both for original .mts and CHQ .avi. At least 5th version. I tried on Sonic's files.
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Good news and bad news. I guess I will need a much faster computer, which I was ready to get anyway. I build them myself so I wil have to get the fastest everything. How does ram affect Edius performance? I have version 5. The motherboard I was inquiring about at the latest computer fair I went to was able to use a max. of 16gig. At $100 for 4 gigs thats not a bad amount to put in if it it will improve the programs performance.

Thanks for the info slonick.
 
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Isaac_Brody said:
Not true, you can remove pulldown on export from premiere from a 23.976 sequence. Tried it today and it works.
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really? where's the option? the 3:2 pulldown for the GH1 clips are WWSSW. Premiere has no way of knowing this and there is no way to tell it. simply selecting progressive frames doesn't remove pulldown. it just changes the frame rate to 23.978 which leads to missing frames and or repeated frames, which is not true progressive frame rate.
 
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