Whats the best way to record professional audio with the GH1?

M

moviemaykr

Active member
I have been trying many connectors but it doesn't seem to allow me to connect my wireless lav or my boom mic through XLR with connectors.
Im also trying to figure out how to do the video out to an HD monitor. I only have composite cable that came with the camera.
Anyone have another cable?
 
The best way to record professional audio with a GH1 is to hire an audio professional with his own sound recorder.

The best "prosumer" way is to get your own digital recorder, like an Edirol or even a Zoom H4N.

The worst possible way to record audio on a GH1 is to try to have the camera itself record it.

As for going out to a monitor, you can use the HDMI connection, but only when the camera is in playback mode. If you want live viewing when in camera mode, the RCA/composite is the only way to do it. And even then you have to do the trash can/display button trick to enable it.
 
Thanks Barry, I curious why Panasonic would not offer a way to display video out in the form of component HD . I have an IKAN 8inch HD monitor and would love to be able to see what Im shooting in HD.
Do you think they will or a 3rd party will make a cable that will do this?
 
You can get component by using an HD Fury II.


But, again, the GH1 is incapable of sending a live HD signal to a monitor. Only playback.
 
Barry_Green said:
The worst possible way to record audio on a GH1 is to try to have the camera itself record it.
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This I would only somewhat disagree with.

The worst possible way to record audio on a GH1 would be to let the camera record it using the built-in microphone.

Only slightly better would be using a Rode VideoMic or Sennheiser MKE400 external microphone connected directly to the GH1. It's an improvement in quality, for sure, over the internal mic, and if you absolutely have to record this way, you can.

But an external recorder (or a pro sound guy) is definitely the best way to go.

--SM
 
Let me jump on this train... Let's say the worst is the built-in microphone and the next worst is a consumer microphone (Rode VideoMic or Sennheiser MKE400) connected directly to the GH1. Those approaches are limited both technically by the GH1's preamp and A/D converter and physically by the distance from the camera to the sound source.

What's the next best for an on-camera microphone setup? A microphone with a good external preamp (eg. juicedlink cx231 or sound devices mp-1)? Or a digital audio recorder with good internal microphones and preamps (eg., Sony PCM-D50)? How much better would either of those setups be than stereo sound recorded by the GH1?

What's the best possible sound achievable with an on-camera setup for the GH1? How much better would it be than the basic GH1 with consumer mic, given that even a basic off-camera audio setup will be better than any on-camera setup?
 
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Well, yes, that's a given, but you're right to say it. Internal mic = the absolute worst, and using any sort of mic plugged into the internal system is marginally better.

But what I was getting at is, recording anything using the camera's internal recording system is going to be awful, because you cannot control the levels and the AGC is always active. So even if you were running a $3,000 microphone into a $4,000 mixer, and piping the output to the camera -- it's still gonna be awful. Obviously less awful than it would be if you used the onboard mic, but awful nonetheless. The GH1 is not capable of recording good audio. Passable, perhaps, but not good. You have to use an external recorder to get good audio.

The thread title was asking for the best way to record "professional audio" with the GH1. I contend that you can't get professional quality, if you're recording into the GH1. (or 7D or 5D or any other DSLR).
 
noirist said:
What's the best possible sound achievable with an on-camera setup for the GH1?
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Crap. That's the best you can get (when speaking in professional terms) using the on-camera GH1 audio recording capabilities.

How much better would it be than the basic GH1 with consumer mic, given that even a basic off-camera audio setup will be better than any on-camera setup?
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Well, there's crap that doesn't stink too bad yet, and then there's six-day-old catbox stink. Using the internal mic to record on-camera, you're talking about six-day-old catbox. Using a quality microphone plugged directly into the GH1, now you're talking about fresh crap.

But it's still crap.

The pre-amps are useless and the AGC ruins any semblance of professionalism. It's not hard to use an external recorder, a dedicated piece of hardware that has none of the DSLR inherent drawbacks, and the quality boost is substantial. Go for an external when working with an SLR.
 
There is supposedly a device that is a pre-amp that also emits a silent tone that blocks the AGC somehow... I forget what it's called...

Anyway, I've heard it works but never seen any real samples despite requests for them.

The Zoom H4N Barry mentioned is the most commonly used device around these parts (GH1 forums that is :)).
 
Barry_Green said:
Crap. That's the best you can get (when speaking in professional terms) using the on-camera GH1 audio recording capabilities.


Well, there's crap that doesn't stink too bad yet, and then there's six-day-old catbox stink. Using the internal mic to record on-camera, you're talking about six-day-old catbox. Using a quality microphone plugged directly into the GH1, now you're talking about fresh crap.

But it's still crap.

The pre-amps are useless and the AGC ruins any semblance of professionalism. It's not hard to use an external recorder, a dedicated piece of hardware that has none of the DSLR inherent drawbacks, and the quality boost is substantial. Go for an external when working with an SLR.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, Barry, I think you're being a bit hyperbolic here.

I've got about 30 hours of footage from a recent shoot in Brazil, recorded with the 7D and Sennheiser MKE400. In that environment, and in that situation, I was able to get on-camera sound that is every bit as "usable" as what I would have gotten with my HVX or EX1. It's not "crap" in any way, shape or form.

Now, as I said in another thread, I'd prefer not to rely on the on-board audio of ANY HDSLR for mission-critical sound, from narrative work to interviews and anything in between.

There are many, many situations where the AGC and lack of audio controls on these cameras can be a problem. But the audio itself, in certain circumstances, can be perfectly acceptable.

As you always say, knowing what these cameras can and can't do is key to getting what you need out of them. Audio included.
 
We had one of those (the Beachtek) for use with the GH1, but I don't know if Jack ever ended up using any of that audio, or if the signal helped defeat the AGC.

I have no problem with DIY guys using a Zoom H4N if they want. But I would like to point out that the title of this thread was about getting "professional audio" and in that aspect, there's no way that I would consider using a Beachtek that's squealing a high-frequency whine into the audio to try to defeat the AGC, as a viable alternative for getting professional audio.

For amateur/homebrew audio? Sure, go right ahead. Try it and let us know how it works, etc. There are lots and lots of folks here with no budget, and a $300 solution would be great for them. In my experience with the battery-hungry Zoom, at under $300 it's a decent complement to the SLRs. But I wouldn't classify it up there with an actual professional recorder like a Zaxcom or even a Tascam HD-P2!
 
stephenmick said:
Respectfully, Barry, I think you're being a bit hyperbolic here.
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I disagree. I'm being very hyperbolic. Bringing new meaning to the term hyperbole. I am setting new standards of hyperbole. I fully acknowledge that.

But, only because it is my understanding that this thread is about getting "professional sound recording". Not usable, not tolerable, not acceptable, but professional. And I do hold that an AGC-based in-camera system on an $800 body-only still camera, while able to do a passable job, is simply incapable of delivering professional results.

I just like saying it in a hyperbolic manner. :D

Now, as I said in another thread, I'd prefer not to rely on the on-board audio of ANY HDSLR for mission-critical sound, from narrative work to interviews and anything in between.
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And that's the only thing I'm referencing here, because of the poster's question revolving on "recording professional audio".
 
LOL... I agree, professional audio not possible, hyperbole enjoyed.

But that still leaves my question, how much better each of the four obvious low-budget camera-mounted possibilities would be and whether any of them are worth paying for: (1) consumer microphone directly into GH1 ($200); (2) portable digital audio recorder with good internal mics and preamps ($300-500); (3) semi-pro microphone with good preamp into GH1 ($600); and (4) semi-pro mic into digital audio recorder with good preamps ($800). Meaning, given that the audio won't be professional, are any of those low-budget on-camera choices worth paying for or is it better to just stick with stock?
 
noirist said:
LOL... I agree, professional audio not possible, hyperbole enjoyed.
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Mission accomplished. :thumbsup:

But that still leaves my question, how much better each of the four obvious low-budget camera-mounted possibilities would be and whether any of them are worth paying for: (1) consumer microphone directly into GH1 ($200);
Click to expand...
Where is the consumer microphone mounted? If it's on the camera, then I give this option zero stars. If it's on a boom pole eight inches away from the actor's mouth, then I give this option 1.5 stars, and mainly it gets that not for quality, but for quality boost at minimal cost. You'll still be hampered by the camera's AGC.

(2) portable digital audio recorder with good internal mics and preamps ($300-500);
Click to expand...
Using what -- its own mics? I give this option one star, but only if the recorder is located very close to the actors. If it's as far away as the camera, then this option gets 1/2 of one star.

(3) semi-pro microphone with good preamp into GH1 ($600);
Click to expand...
Where is this mic mounted? If it's on a boom pole hanging eight inches away from the actor's mouth, then this option gets two stars. If it's on the camera, this option gets 1/4 of one star.

and (4) semi-pro mic into digital audio recorder with good preamps ($800).
Click to expand...
Where is this mic mounted? If it's located on a boom pole eight inches away from the actor's mouth, then this option (for a prosumer choice) can deliver four stars.

Microphone placement will do more for your sound quality than any other factor.

I'd rather have a $90 Azden shotgun on a boompole eight inches away from the actor's mouth (and recording directly into the GH1), than have a $1,000 Shoeps mounted on the camera and recording directly into the GH1.

Meaning, given that the audio won't be professional, are any of those low-budget on-camera choices worth paying for or is it better to just stick with stock?
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It's all about mic placement, even more than mic quality. Get a $179 Oktava MK012, put it on a boom pole eight inches away, and record it on a Zoom H4N, and you'll get audio that will be incredibly vastly amazingly superior to *anything* you'd get by running any mic mounted on the camera. I won't say it's "great" audio, but it'll be so much better than the six-day-old catbox stuff, it'll really, really stand out. This solution can end up with some pretty good audio.

Stephen mentioned his on-camera mic, and if you're in the type of shots that I think he's talking about (shooting three feet away from someone in a boat) I bet it delivered plenty acceptable results, maybe even in the category of pretty darn good. But if you were to go into a cinema situation with that setup, where the mic is on the camera and 12 or 15 feet away from the actors, and it's pointed horizontally directly at the actor -- I bet you he'd be the first to tell you that that would result in unacceptable dialogue recording. It'd be a boomy/echo-filled mess, just crammed full of hissing noise and pumping audio levels.

So get the mic close. Incredibly close. Uncomfortably close. That's your #1 priority -- more important than picking a good mic, more important than what you record it on.

Next priority, once you've done that, would be to defeat the AGC, because that will make your sound recording a living hell. The pumping up and dropping down of the background noise will pollute your soundtrack. You can defeat that with an external recorder. That's why I keep mentioning an external recorder. I'm actually okay with recording direct-to-camera on something like a DVX or HVX or EX1, because the manual audio levels remove the nightmare of AGC from the equation. So it's not that I'm against recording in-camera, I'm against recording with AGC -- and the DSLRs don't let you defeat the AGC.

So once you've accomplished those two things, the next priority would be getting a better-quality mic (and attendant support gear; a proper shock mount, a proper boom pole, a decent cable, etc).

Attack them in that order, and you'll increase the audio quality exponentially.

Watch our [plug] Sound for Film & Television DVD [/plug] and you'll see examples of how incredibly important microphone placement is. You don't need the best mics. Technique will overcome a world of other shortcomings. Mediocre mic with great technique will beat great mic with mediocre technique every time.

You don't need to spend a lot on sound either. The biggest gripe I have with the SLRs is the automatic level gain that you can't disable. That's why an external recorder is a much better idea, and with something like the Zoom being available for under $300, it's a reasonable choice. It's not a great recorder, but it's decent, and you don't really NEED "great" for dialogue anyway. For music, I wouldn't recommend it, but for dialogue it's adequate and pretty good bang for the buck.

An MK012 into a zoom H4N would give you probably the cheapest prosumer sound solution that, if used properly, will really deliver pretty darn good sound.
 
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Just to add another option for the OP. If you are doing narrative work or shooting under fairly controlled conditions, then a laptop if you already have one, is a relatively inexpensive way of getting closer to "pro" sound. A good quality audio interface with mic pre can be picked up for not a great deal more than the Zoom H4n. You would have a great deal more control over what was recorded on set and could also have the possibility of mixing mics, presuming you had multi inputs.
It's a more complex set up than a recorder, but probably worth it if mobility isn't the deciding factor.
 
stephenmick said:
I've got about 30 hours of footage from a recent shoot in Brazil, recorded with the 7D and Sennheiser MKE400. In that environment, and in that situation, I was able to get on-camera sound that is every bit as "usable" as what I would have gotten with my HVX or EX1. It's not "crap" in any way, shape or form.
Click to expand...

Lets see a sample
 
Nobody asked nicely, but I figured I'd post something anyway. :D

This is a quick clip with an interview snippet and some on-water action footage. In the first "action" clips, I'm shooting from another boat, about 20 feet away. In the last clip, I'm on the same boat as the main "subject." And it's raining.

Nothing has been done to the audio. Period. No level adjustments in FCP. No filtering at all. Nothing has been done to the video, either. I figured this was an audio test, so why bother.




VIDEO IS NOW OFFLINE. If you're interested in viewing, PM me and I'll provide a password.

--SM
 
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I think crap is about right. I mean, it has crappy sound and cheesy circuits. But cheesy doesn't seem strong enough somehow. One can make a good recording with a crappy mic and a crappy recording with a good mic. The fact that you get a good recording just means you are good at recording.
 
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