Various non-compatible video formats

L

lifepo4

Well-known member
I am relatively new to video editing, but have played with various HD formats (Looks like there are 40-60 different types) and very troubled by the incompatibility of various formats. I just downloaded video (SONY XDCAM 35 Mbps VBR) and can't open it using FCE 3.5 (MPEG streamclip, VLC, iMovies, Quicktime Pro, etc. none of them working either), even v3.5 allows me to export video to XDCAM 35 Mbps VBR. Also I notice that H.264 seemed to have different implementation from each vendor, files from Hauppauge PVR (H264 format) is different from standard H.264 (from Apple) when I play them on Western Digital HD Media Player (Hauppauge H264 can't play).

Now here is the question: Which software company produce video software with wide format compatibility and which company is likely to coerce you into their proprietary format and lock you up for max $$$ (Apple appears to be so)? I will soon buy my video editing software and I will do my best to protect my investment. Anyone who used M$ Office 2007 will understand what I mean.

Thank you!
 
Yes, Edius will swallow just about anything you throw at it, and depending on your hardware it'll play it back in TRUE realtime out to your monitor/deck. No conforming, no rendering to new formats.

On the flip side, I believe FCP conforms EVERYTHING you throw at it.. I don't use it, so I'm not speaking from experience. :)
 
If you want to work with Pro HD Formats and FCP you need to buy Final Cut Pro and not Final Cut Express. Basically what I would do is simply convert everything to ProRes and then work with that. It will also be much simpler with a streamlined codec.
 
I just shot some video for two guys who were mac guys.
It was really really bad.
This was one of them discount deals.
I shoot a night of footage and hand off the footage to them via hard drive transfer.

(That is how it was supposed to go down, they were going to do their own edit)

It was a 4 hour shoot. In the end, I was transfering the footage and it was obvious that I would not be done at a reasonable time, so I agreed to meet with them in the morning.

That night I had MY laptop (because I was doing the transfer with it), and so I paused and showed them some clips from the night so they could get an idea of what was shot.

Then the next day, I had both hard drives with footage on them, but did not bring my laptop as it was supposed to be a hard drive hand off, and they already saw the footage.

The first guy didn't bring his computer at all, so we used the lobby computer and it cold see the files, a PC, but could not play them as there was no codec or player installed.

The other guy had a mac with OS 10 and he could not play the files, he couldn't even see the files.

IT turned into a bunch of extra time with these dudes as they then wanted me to go home and get my laptop to play the files again.

I had already spent an additional 2 hours trying to get these files to play on thier mac.

Found out, that one hard drive was formatted at Fat 32 and there was some limit as to why a mac could not see a hard drive formatted as one partition of fat 32.

The second hard drive was formatted correctly, but that guy was not satisfied untill he saw the footage play again from his drive.

I am not sure if I was wrong or not, but I felt my job was to shoot the footage, and hand off the hard drive.

If they had further problems we would address them then.

My job was not to baby sit them and show them how to play files on their laptops.

In the end, I just took their hard drives and erased the footage and told them not to worry about it.

....Two weeks later, they wanted the footage again, so I added an extra $100 to the tab and did the process again, but only to one hard drive.

The supplied hard drive was now formatted as a mac hard drive, and I could not see it on the PC. I downloaded Macdrive 7, and was then able to see the drive and do the transfer.

When I delivered the drive, the guy still could not play the files on his mac...not sure why. WE tried with every app he had.

I played them back on the laptop I brought and he was fine.

He just could not get the files to play at all on his mac. Mainly due to his not having software to do so.

I think 10 years ago, macs played most things great, but today, with the glitches, and from my personal experiences from watching others not able to play stuff, I think I am glad I have a PC.

I have an older desktop that also edits this stuff like DV (core duo, not core 2 duo, running edius and premiere),

I can't do mac's ...that's just me.
 
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Green Hornet said:
I just shot some video for two guys who were mac guys.
It was really really bad.
Click to expand...

Neither Windows XP nor Vista can play AVCHD or any of the Pro HD codecs out of the box. What happened to you with those "mac guys" can happen with any "windows guys" as well. I would suggest to not speak to losers or know how things are done.

Btw. Mac OS 10 does not exist. It's Mac OS X but the X is pronounced as "ten".
 
pailes said:
Neither Windows XP nor Vista can play AVCHD or any of the Pro HD codecs out of the box. What happened to you with those "mac guys" can happen with any "windows guys" as well. I would suggest to not speak to losers or know how things are done.

Btw. Mac OS 10 does not exist. It's Mac OS X but the X is pronounced as "ten".
Click to expand...

No, but if you install any modern NLE on a PC you can ingest just about ANY pro HD format. Panasonic's codec notwithstanding. However, this issue here was two jokers not sorting out the workflow and then relying on the camera operator to make it work on their Macs.

I have MacDrive 7 and that works nicely for the physical part. For some reason I couldn't format a drive though which sucked. And since Apple won't let PC users write ProRes, I write DNxHD .movs for the mac folk. They can get the codec free and play it on their systems, and I can play it on my PC. Took a long time to come up with a PC/Mac codec that was hgh quality, free, and didn't cause trouble like gamma shifts, etc.

But these 2 should have sorted that out before they hired someone to shoot and dump their footage to hard drive.
 
Perone, The DNxHD may be my solution for the mac guys in the future.
I guess something good did come from this...a solution for future users who I will have to deal with that may not be as versed as others.

I don't want to sound like a mac basher, it's just that in the past, they have always been the ones who praise the mac so much as a do all computer out of the box, and look at PC users as
martians or something...
 
Okay, so I go the avid codec into a MOV file.
That will eliminate a same day transfer as I will have to re-encode the footage to this codec.
What is that worth?

How much extra would one charge to do this?

So much for the hard drive hand off same day service
 
PerroneFord said:
No, but if you install any modern NLE on a PC you can ingest just about ANY pro HD format. Panasonic's codec notwithstanding.
Click to expand...

Install Final Cut Studio and it can deal with almost any pro HD format. I would say it's a pretty modern NLE even if it can't deal with AVCHD natively yet. What was your point again? And which Panasonic codec are you referring to?
 
The problem I am running into is not so much shooters or editors (someone who would buy an NLE in the first place).

It is more the someone who wants to video an event.
An event co-ordinator, musician, artist, Sweet 16 mother, beauty pageant, etc.

You can't just tell them to buy final cut to view their files.

After all they only wanted to pay you $600 do shoot it with 2 cameras for 5 hours.
You thought okay, it's $600 cash and you shoot and walk away.

You can't give them thumb drives..too small.
You can't give them your SD cards, that is just silly.
That is like giving away your batteries, and giving away the potential to edit it once the see how hard it is. Or doesn't protect you when they say you gave them corrupt footage.


On a PC, you can include OXYGEN player (A free player for AVCHD for PC)
and you are good.

They can PLAY your files.
I want the smoothest workflow in dealing with footage to customer.

I am still wondering how a mac person is dealing with the soccer mom who wants to hire you to shoot her son in his big game, and has a mac at home.

She most likely does not have the latest mac, nor would the every day person have Final cut.

How do you deal with her when she wants to see the footage on her mac?
 
pailes said:
Install Final Cut Studio and it can deal with almost any pro HD format. I would say it's a pretty modern NLE even if it can't deal with AVCHD natively yet. What was your point again? And which Panasonic codec are you referring to?
Click to expand...

Ingest without having to convert everything to ProRes. Anything can read anything if a transcode is involved.

And the panasonic codec is the one I have to buy Raylight for...
 
PerroneFord said:
Ingest without having to convert everything to ProRes. Anything can read anything if a transcode is involved.
Click to expand...

I don't mind transcoding as long as it can be easily edited afterwards. And no, I don't agree because even when you're transcoding you need at least something that can decode the source material.
 
This it the parity issue that David S was talking about. Panny hasn't given the mac people their free player or a transcoding option that non FCP people can use. Even if they buy Toast or Voltaic, if a MAc person doesn't have the Codec then they can't use toast or Voltaic. It's definitely a bungle by Panny to so openly neglected the larger percentage of users... who are Mac people.


Personally I don't ever have any issues with any format, even PC files as I have my system dialed in with a ton of other apps..... Also one other option, would be to capture the files via the intensity card and deliver in whatever format...



Also.. equally as frustrating to a Mac person is that PCs can't read DVCPRO quicktime files at all. When I work with my graphics buddy we have to send files back and forth as qucktime animation files and those are HUGE...


Either way Hornet.. I feel your pain and have to go through this all the time. From now on I'd recommend having the client buy the SD cards and just let them deal with it on their own. That is what I do and highly recommend it. They can pick up 8 gig cards for really cheap and then own them when they are done...

I do my part to help people out.. but as you know it just turns into a PITA and you have to deal with their inabilities. I just had something like this with a Mac person too. They didn't have FCP so they couldn't deal with my codec.. but they were unwilling to pay me to convert it all. So I said, tough cookies and told them to either guy someone with FCP or to pay me to do the work. Since it's extra work.. we should get paid for it. I also tend to go deaf in both ears when I hear the dreaded.. "OH, by the way...".



I think in another 6 months things will be swimming along like P2 is now... but even in the beginning of the P2 stuff there were huge bugs and glitches in FCP. I was not able to get anything to truly work right till studio 2 came out. Overall though, as others love their PCs.. I love my Mac and I would rather have my nails pulled out than have to suffer through windows. To that, it's each their own. BUT.


Panny needs to deliver equal apps to all people on both platforms. There should be a FREE player for mac people and a free converter so they can deal with the footage. Not everyone has FCP but I think they should.. if they are on the mac and cutting with that.



Cheers all and always make sure you are compensated for your extra time!
 
i'm not convinced that a simple handoff with avchd is really possible yet, at least not until avchd becomes much more widely supported.

i just take it for granted that i will have to transcode to a ready-to-edit format before delivering the clips on a hdd, dvd, or sd card.

i mean look at all the hmc150 and canon avchd cam owners out there who are still having workflow problems with the codec. if they can't handle it, then i can't expect any soccer moms to be able to either. unfortunate, but true.

my suggestion would be to find out what they intend to do with the clips and transcode the files myself. then deliver the clips with a folder containing the codec (just in case they don't have it) and a player if needed. it makes a nice package. yes, its more work than simply handing it off, but i just try to upsell them on it and charge them for it as part of the package.....covers the cost of the hdd/sd and short time for me to sort the clips into folders for them. that saves them time logging footage and they can go straight to editing.
 
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