Varicam 2?

Varicam, as the name suggests, would have speed ramping. It would also have 24p, which the 20k camera probally would not if it follows suit. Varicam probally will have a deck incamera, where a 20k 2/3 camera probally wouldnt.

of course im just guessing here.
 
Jarred Land said:
Varicam, as the name suggests, would have speed ramping. It would also have 24p, which the 20k camera probally would not if it follows suit. Varicam probally will have a deck incamera, where a 20k 2/3 camera probally wouldnt.

of course im just guessing here.
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In terms of image though, what is so great about the Varicam(besides the speedramping, which is awsome)?
What films have been shot with the Varicam? Maybe I could get an idea of the image quality.
 
FatBird19 said:
Whoa dang!! I just did a search. 600mbps for HDCAM SR. :shocked:
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Yeah.. good luck getting a 8 drive SATA array to lay down to a dual HD-SDI card at home.. but give it a couple years.
 
Jarred Land said:
Yeah.. good luck getting a 8 drive SATA array to lay down to a dual HD-SDI card at home.. but give it a couple years.
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Maybe if flash-based memory technology continues to march forward. :thumbsup:


Another question that's been on my mind lately(thanks for answering these btw), I've been told that a digital camera is capable of film lattitude if the sensors are big enough. I was under the impression that digital could only collect 7-8stops at the most. True, false, other?
 
FatBird19 said:
In terms of image though, what is so great about the Varicam(besides the speedramping, which is awsome)?
What films have been shot with the Varicam? Maybe I could get an idea of the image quality.
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Varicam has a very distinct look and warmth, that many DP's love. Sony's C.Alta cameras are a little cold.

However.. the Sony cameras shoot 1080.. so most bigger movies use that camera because of the more information. Varicam and 720p has a big HD-TV following.

Thats why the new Varicam is overdue.. Panasonic needs to jump into the 1080 professional market.
 
FatBird19 said:
Another question that's been on my mind lately(thanks for answering these btw), I've been told that a digital camera is capable of film lattitude if the sensors are big enough. I was under the impression that digital could only collect 7-8stops at the most. True, false, other?
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That's true, but at the moment you'd be talking about rare and specialized equipment. In other words, paying a fortune. But this is always true of pretty much anything. If you want a LCD monitor with 10,000 pixels of resolution, it exists, but you'll have to pay some medical company $30,000 for it. In ten years, maybe it will be to the common and affordable level, but for now I wouldn't bother thinking about it.
 
I saw a picture of a mock-up D5 camera that used P2 cards on this forum. So it could be something for the future, right?
I tried searching it but D5 is too short for a search. :(
 
Jarred Land said:
As for the Varicam being 16k cheaper.. i doubt that will happen.. Im sure they will find something new to do with that savings... and the P2 "guts" isn't free. I suspect they will be about the same.
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I find it pretty hard to agree with that. If you look at all of the P2 cameras they've released up until this point, they'll all been around 70% of the cost of their counterparts with tape drives.

The AJ-SDC905 retails for $18,900, while its P2 brother, the AJ-SPC700, goes for $12,995 (31% less).

The AJ-SDX900 retails for $26,750, while its P2 brother, the AJ-SPX800, goes for $19,500 (27% less).

Following this pricing structure, a P2 version of the current Varicam (which retails for $65,900) would cost around $46,100.

Of course, that's pure speculation, but the whole point of P2 (from an economics perspective) is that they can deliver the same (or better) quality video as they can on tape, but without a $20,000 DVCPROHD head inside. Sure, the P2 "guts" aren't "free," but they're extremely less expensive than the drive mechanism - which is why we're getting the HVX for under 6K. With no moving parts, I'd reckon that the insides of the HVX are a lot closer to the Varicam's than one would think; it's the CCDs and the lens that are making the biggest difference in the quality of the picture.

Anyway, a $45K P2 Varicam would be cool, especially if it means renting one would place it a few hundred bucks cheaper than what a Varicam currently sets you back.
 
Jarred Land said:
Varicam, as the name suggests, would have speed ramping. It would also have 24p, which the 20k camera probally would not if it follows suit.
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It's not pick on Jared day, I swear :) but I can't believe they would release a 2/3" camera at this point and not include 24p. Not only is lack of 24p what's killing Sony in their HDV market, but Panasonic is the company that ushered it in to begin with. The SPX has 24p, it's under $20K already, and it's P2 as well. Of course that's an SD camera, but P2 facilitates any kind of resolution/format you want to throw at it (that's part of its beauty). Up until the HVX, all of the P2 cameras were "versions" of cameras that already existed - cameras that can only shoot in one resolution and with one format (with the exception of the SDX which shoots 50 and 25). The HVX is the first camera that does HD *and* SD, 1080 *and* 720, interlaced *and* progressive - pretty much everything under the sun. The P2 is what is ushering in this revolution. The next big camera for Panasonic should really be a 2/3" version of the HVX - offering both flavors of HD and all formats of DVCPRO, which would make it an unbelievably competitive camera. There wouldn't be anything else like it on the market.
 
what the digital filmaking market needs is a HDTV cam with 1080P and 100fps.

with dvcprohd codec that would be 400mbs if they use the "pal" codec.
 
Jarred Land said:
As for the Varicam being 16k cheaper.. i doubt that will happen.. Im sure they will find something new to do with that savings... and the P2 "guts" isn't free. I suspect they will be about the same.
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I think you're right about no savings Jarred, but I'm betting that trumpeting the new features like 1080 and a few others, they could get away with pricing the Varicam II above the current Varicam (or its equivalent in technology) yet below the Sony f-900.

To slightly disagree with someone else's post above, I have a degree in econ., and sure pricing follows technological efficiency in supply, but also (as that great dead white male Adam Smith would quickly point out) what the market will bear in demand. E.g., some kids want an i-Pod and only an i-Pod and don't you dare even think about putting a non-Apple equivalent under the Christmas tree.
 
E.g., some kids want an i-Pod and only an i-Pod and don't you dare even think about putting a non-Apple equivalent under the Christmas tree.
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All to true.

The Name brand is a huge factor.

Like the difference between Band-Aids and Adhesive Strips.
 
Haakon said:
Panasonic doesn't make a 2/3" camera without interchangable lenses... I figured that was implied. :)
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I'm well aware of that. I've been using a Varicam and SDX900 for some time now. My reason for throwing in "... and interchangable lenses" was to emphasize the increased optical ability of a 2/3" HVX. The lack of an interchangable lens in the HVX is something all of us have to deal with for certain shooting situations, but with 2/3" chips and interchangable lenses there's a whole new operative scenario.

Gibby
www.cut4.tv
 
They've already shown a stripped down version of a VariCam, the HDX400. Off the top of head, I think it's a 1080i-only 2/3" camera for $44K or something. Take the tape deck out and replace it with P2 and they could drop the price, say $15 - 20K. This isn't rocket science guys! One thing is for sure, they have their work cut out for them in the 1080i news market since their primary competition (Thomson/Grass Valley) has a camera (Infinity) for half the price of the HDX400! I'd bet you can count on a P2 1080i Cam for around $20K next year. That's different than a VariCam, of course, an area of the market in which no-one is in direct competition with them...
 
the HDX400 is 30k. I dont know if your gonna save 20k.. i mean a good rule of thumb is to look at the SDX900 vs the SPX800.. without the heads you save 7k. But I have a feeling the new varicam isnt gonna toss out the tape drive.
 
yeah dude, but look at the cost between a DVCPro50 deck and DVCProHD deck! Since the HD deck has 16 heads instead of 8 (like DV50) I figured $15K was a reasonable assumption. By your count, the HDX400 sells for $30K. I think without tape, it would be $15K.

You were at NAB last year and saw the same D5HD VariCam mock up I did... It's coming some day. Maybe a few years away still...
 
true enough.. but remember that the P2 system costs at least 5 grand in the big cameras all by itself... look at the HVX.. the price for the P2 parts almost doubles the price of the camera.

But anyways.. i think we shal see. who knows. I figure we are at least a year off anyways.
 
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