Varicam 2?

Jarred_Land said:
the P2 system costs at least 5 grand in the big cameras all by itself
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I'd be careful with statements like that! Soon enough the customers will be asking for a $10K HDX400 without Tape or P2 so they can record to a Firestore! I think the P2 component costs maybe a couple hundred bucks. They'd have to be really, really inefficient for it to cost more than that on the manufacturing end... Oh well. There's no winning an argument with you Jarred...
 
maybe in pure parts yes.. its very very hard for people to understand R&D costs of lower volume items. When you take paying a team of people, marketing etc.. I would be it be closer to $5k, if not more.

Why do you think the HVX200 costs $3000 more than a DVX? and thats a higher volume item.
 
So, if you take P2 out, the camera sells for $5K less? I don't think it's possible to break down a broadcast camera into components like you're playing with Lego's.

Nahhh, I understand economies of scale just fine.
 
Jarred Land said:
the HDX400 is 30k.
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Wow, when did that happen? It was introduced at $42,500. I just looked on the website and it's now got an MSRP of $32,000.

Guess there's not all that much demand for a 1080i-only camera!
 
Jarred Land said:
true enough.. but remember that the P2 system costs at least 5 grand in the big cameras all by itself... look at the HVX.. the price for the P2 parts almost doubles the price of the camera.
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I confess I have no idea what you're saying here. The P2 system costs $5,000? Where does that notion come from?

A DVCPRO-50 deck costs $7,000. An SPX is $7,000 less than an SDX, and the only difference is a 5-slot P2 system vs. a tape deck. By your reckoning, shouldn't an SPX sell for only $2,000 less than the SDX?
 
Jarred Land said:
Why do you think the HVX200 costs $3000 more than a DVX?
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It doesn't. It costs $2,000 more. MSRP $3995 vs. MSRP $5995.

And the additional costs are more than explained by a) the presence of a high-def chipset (and a brand-new design at that) and b) a high-def lens, and it's longer and wider too. It's a 13x vs. a 10x, and 4.2 vs. 4.5, and high-def vs. standard-def. I think those two items easily explain the cost difference, and adding a P2 card system is probably the least expensive option in the whole camera.
 
Barry_Green said:
Wow, when did that happen?
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After two announcements of hi-def cameras in the $20k range undoubtedly had something to do with that: Infinity at under $20k (2/3", body only), and XDCAM-HD at $23.5k? (1/2", with lens). Of those two, the Infinity announcement probrbly had the most impact...

Gibby
www.cut4.tv
 
Well, yeah, those surely must have had an impact too, thanks for bringing that up. Things are getting pretty competitive in the HD world... which is another reason why I would expect the VariCam II will be a *lot* less expensive than the current VariCam!
 
so is it my understanding that the 400 is very similar to the varicam but sans 24p? It seems that panny could easily build from the 400 to a 24p p2 camera. I don't see how they could'nt get a 2/3" HD P2 camera out there for say 20ish grand. Man it seems to me that the 400 could turn out to be very important in the overall evolution.

Cheers,
Chris
 
i hear there is a new dvcpro hd camera with built in lens, P2, dv tape drive, mulitple frame rates, 720 & 1080 - and it is all supposed to come in under 6K! have you all heard the rumor about this?

hhhmmmmmmmmmm
 
thisiswells said:
Nahhh, I understand economies of scale just fine.
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Also, what's going on is you're getting lower costs across all ranges of production (a drop in the total cost curve--not that there's many companies that hire guys like me to plot those out anymore!!). That's actually a greater effect than economies of scale (getting lower costs just by increasing production; pretty limited in practice because as you keep hiring people and adding machines the people start getting into each other's way and you run out of room to put machines).

All of this is why it's not that easy to put a single absolute cost on P2 guts in Panny cameras.:)

Sorry, that's enough economics...forever in this forum!!:cheesy:
 
steindj said:
Sorry, that's enough economics...forever in this forum!!:cheesy:
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Yes... please no more economics!! :)


I think in framerates, bit-depths, focal distances, etc... but this thread has made my brain tired. ;)
 
Barry_Green said:
It doesn't. It costs $2,000 more. MSRP $3995 vs. MSRP $5995.

And the additional costs are more than explained by a) the presence of a high-def chipset (and a brand-new design at that) and b) a high-def lens, and it's longer and wider too. It's a 13x vs. a 10x, and 4.2 vs. 4.5, and high-def vs. standard-def. I think those two items easily explain the cost difference, and adding a P2 card system is probably the least expensive option in the whole camera.
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ok cowboy..

so the P2 slots are the cheapest parts of the camera.

mmmm..

so whats going on here?

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=72037&catGroupId=14595&modelNo=AJ-PCD10&surfModel=AJ-PCD10


I would be willing to bet that the p2 card system isnt the cheapest part of the HVX camera. Its true you save a bundle on not having heads, but its not like P2 is free.
.. we all know that a PCMCIA card slot costs about $20 to make.. but there is more to the P2 system than just the slot.
 
Barry_Green said:
I confess I have no idea what you're saying here. The P2 system costs $5,000? Where does that notion come from?

A DVCPRO-HD deck costs $7,000. An SPX is $7,000 less than an SDX, and the only difference is a 5-slot P2 system vs. a tape deck. By your reckoning, shouldn't an SPX sell for only $2,000 less than the SDX?
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wholly crap.. .you show me a DVCPRO-HD deck that costs $7000 and Ill buy both me and you one.

Did someone hijack Barry's username? Or did that old lady you ran over whack you over the head with her cane :) heh heh heh. :grin:
 
DOH! Gotta plead guilty to the whacked-in-the-head-with-the-cane thing. I meant DVCPRO50, not DVCPRO-HD. The rest of that post was about SPX vs. SDX, which is all DV50... just put the wrong suffix on there. Which is, of course, about an $18,000 mistake... =:O

And no, I have no explanation for the PCD10... none whatsoever.
 
ha ha yeah me either.. that thing better toast my bagels as well for that price. I got my 5 1/4 inch pcmcia SATA reader for $40. Sure its only one slot.. but still.

And im glad the old woman caught up to you to whack you with her cane.. its been 10 months, but thats a long way to roll your wheelchair from NY to Vegas.
 
Well... interesting. If it supports 32-bit cardbus cards, I don't see why it wouldn't work. They also have a one-slot version that's even cheaper.
 
Jarred Land said:
And im glad the old woman caught up to you to whack you with her cane.. its been 10 months, but thats a long way to roll your wheelchair from NY to Vegas.
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She woulda got here sooner if you hadn't dropped that tree on her...
 
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