Michael Thames
Carbonite Member
Yea, thanks guys for all the advice of photo quality of the C100. looks like I won't be selling the 5d3 anytime soon.
1DC: Upgrade Advice - 1DC vs. C300
- Thread starter housetwelve
- Start date
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
A mattebox is the substitution for having an internal ND filter wheel, so having it on the 1Dc does bring it closer to the C100 in functionality. I don't see anything wrong with that thought. You can add bits and pieces to the 1Dc to bring it almost similar in functionality to the C100 but not vice vera, most obvious ones is a small rail system with a small mattebox with filter wheel, a Zucoto loop or EVF with peaking/zebras, an external XLR audio recorder feeding the audio input, and even a small Ninja star to get the C300 50mbps 4:2:2 broadcast codec (or even ProRes HQ of course) These can all be fairly customized in a very effective and neat package if you want, but of course some shooter don't like that idea and prefer a full complete package, including me. However you can't add pieces to the C100 to make it fullframe/APS-H 4K shooter, or remove the NDs and put a mirror and OVF and 14fps 18mp stills, or 1080p 60p, or strip it down to the 1DC size/weight. So it depends on how comfortable with customizing a camera package you are.
G
Guest
Guest
Then you are reading too much into what I was saying.
C100 has built in ND, that make controlling DoF while maintaining shutter speed easier. I did not say it makes the quality of the 5D any better. Depending on how you use and shoot, upgrading may or may not be all that worth it. C100 is still on the digital side of things. Better, but still digital. Sharp, but grainy. A nice camera no doubt, but not life changing. In most video situations, I'd rather use a C100, but then again, there are other cameras I would rather use than a C100. But if I already owned a 5d, and I used it for personal use, I would not upgrade, I would get a matte box. (by the way, a matte box is not a random accessory.)
C100 is a fine camera. The 8bit is under rated, but the ergonomics and iso are over rated. They are nice, just a tad over rated. As far as 'quality' goes, and argument can be made for the 5dmk3 when it shoots in raw (same as RAW), which then surpasses the C100 in some IQ aspects.
Anyway, take what you want from that.
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Run&Gun
Veteran
Well, kind of like substituting a 1984 Yugo in for a full fledged racecar. Yes, it can get you around the track, but very slowly in comparison.
If you're in a true 'film production' type environment with an AC, etc., who cares if you have built-in ND and the like. But in fast paced, single operator environments, built-in ND's can't be underestimated for the speed and convenience they give you for exposure/dof adjustment and control.
sonofaresiii
Well-known member
I wasn't trying to start a discussion on the merits of one camera or the other, just pointing out that a matte box itself doesn't get you any closer. If the point was to simulate the built in nd's, you'd still need the ND filters for the matte box. I wasn't sure if the guy misunderstood what a matte box does or mis spoke. It's like saying buying rails is a solution for bad ergonomics. It's not, but it's a necessary step for attaching the accessories which are.
G
Guest
Guest
Uh, this whole thread is about that.
yeah... but it does get one closer. But you are right, I should have explained the whole ND and rig thing. Since he seemed so interested in finding out more about this matte box thing.
Not to simulate built in ND, but to give a way to control DoF.
Haha, I did forget to mention the all important ND's.
I think he's doing all right.
You are a very literal person. It is also like saying I can shoot great pics with a camera, but TOTALLY forget to mention they need a CF card.
If you stop getting hung up on the idea that we are disagreeing about anything, you will see we are agreeing on every point. We are just not agreeing on how it is said. Anyway, OP made their choice, and this banter is not serving any purpose, and I am starting to get a bit disrespectful.
Take care, see you on the boards in another thread.
cookinghusband
Well-known member
Than you should seriously think about selling the 1DC and getting the FS7, but I sure will miss a fellow 1DC veteran who is willing to share
G
Guest
Guest
It is on my short list.
I still prefer having a stills body for a personal camera.
1DC was very nearly a classic camera.
If it had live waveforms, and lower compression and 10-bit 1080 in s35, it would have been.
It embodies a shooting concept, and I connect with it.
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cookinghusband
Well-known member
Very likely I will keep it forever.
I believe all the CF cards I bought now of the 1DC will not work in the up coming generation of new camera, they will be using Cfast or something faster.
AndreeOnline
Veteran
It's going to be very interesting to see what Canon thinks the next C300 needs to stay competitive.
Spartacus
Veteran
Elisabeth,
if you're still following this, let me try to sum it up: Even if there never seems to be a "perfect" time to purchase a new camera, right now this is more obvious.
4K is coming to the highly competitive mid-range and depending on where you find yourself at in that "mid-range", 4K might become a deal breaker or deal maker for you.
Might.
From what you told about yourself all I can see is, you´re ready for sth new. Nothing about wether your clients demand a new camera/look from you, or you need it because you always hit technical limitations (h264 codec breaking up in grading, not enough DR for your style of shooting, want 4K for punch-ins in interviews etc).
If everyone is happy with your 5DMII(s) images, as a business man I would say: quench the last drop of profit out of this baby.
Put the profit on your savings account and happily pay whatever ridiculous amount Canon will charge for their next offering at/after NAB.
That is, if you want/need to stay with Canon. If it's just the DSLR form factor you want, or it has to be NOW, changing brands will get you far these days...
This comes from a happy Canon C(rippled)100 user
All the best!
if you're still following this, let me try to sum it up: Even if there never seems to be a "perfect" time to purchase a new camera, right now this is more obvious.
4K is coming to the highly competitive mid-range and depending on where you find yourself at in that "mid-range", 4K might become a deal breaker or deal maker for you.
Might.
From what you told about yourself all I can see is, you´re ready for sth new. Nothing about wether your clients demand a new camera/look from you, or you need it because you always hit technical limitations (h264 codec breaking up in grading, not enough DR for your style of shooting, want 4K for punch-ins in interviews etc).
If everyone is happy with your 5DMII(s) images, as a business man I would say: quench the last drop of profit out of this baby.
Put the profit on your savings account and happily pay whatever ridiculous amount Canon will charge for their next offering at/after NAB.
That is, if you want/need to stay with Canon. If it's just the DSLR form factor you want, or it has to be NOW, changing brands will get you far these days...
This comes from a happy Canon C(rippled)100 user
All the best!
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
Yes the next C300 will be very interesting to see. Now since the release of the FS7 I know it will have two features for a certain
-Internal 4K recording
-120p at 1080p.
Canon has always been a bit stingy on specs, but perhaps the 4K and 1080p will be in a 10bit codec (the FS7 is). But knowing Canon they always have to hold something back instead of going for all out, here it can be 10/12bit or Raw output that they leave out. If they merged the 300 and 500 lines it will have both, if not the C500 will have them.
A C300 body with a 4K image like the 1DC and 120p slowmotion would be the ultimate camera for nearly everybody and every job don't you think
If you do think about it the camera I am describing is basically the C500 but just with internal recording, so if they updated the C500 too it will have to have some very interesting specs, thing like 240p, 6K, s16 2K, 12bit, and that kind of specs because the C500 is nearly maxed out on specs, just internal recording.
-Internal 4K recording
-120p at 1080p.
Canon has always been a bit stingy on specs, but perhaps the 4K and 1080p will be in a 10bit codec (the FS7 is). But knowing Canon they always have to hold something back instead of going for all out, here it can be 10/12bit or Raw output that they leave out. If they merged the 300 and 500 lines it will have both, if not the C500 will have them.
A C300 body with a 4K image like the 1DC and 120p slowmotion would be the ultimate camera for nearly everybody and every job don't you think
If you do think about it the camera I am describing is basically the C500 but just with internal recording, so if they updated the C500 too it will have to have some very interesting specs, thing like 240p, 6K, s16 2K, 12bit, and that kind of specs because the C500 is nearly maxed out on specs, just internal recording.
Michael Thames
Carbonite Member
Yea, I think it must have 4K and 10bit codec. The present C300 is out done by the the C100 mkII/Blade. Why would anyone even entertain the thought to buy a C300 now? The original C100 sold for close to $7000 they dropped the price down to $5500 with AF. To make the C300 mkII competitive it would have to come in at the present price of the old C300, $11,999.00.
It will be interesting, there will be an enormous amount of used C100 and C300's that will take a chuck out of the sales of the new ones.
It will be interesting, there will be an enormous amount of used C100 and C300's that will take a chuck out of the sales of the new ones.
G
Guest
Guest
Actually, I just wish the 1DC had s35 1080 raw. That'd do it for me. =)
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Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
Just think of the possibilites if someone could port Magiclantern to the 1Dc. We would get all the missing features (peaking/zebras/waveform) and full frame sharp 1080p raw, and s35 1080p raw and even 4K raw if it works the same way as on the 5D (record raw versions of the set resolution).
Is it so hard if we put politics aside? I mean there many experts now and it's incredibly easy for them to port ML to any Canon DSLR. Would someone capable be interested in a private project for quite a high pay?
Is it so hard if we put politics aside? I mean there many experts now and it's incredibly easy for them to port ML to any Canon DSLR. Would someone capable be interested in a private project for quite a high pay?
AndreeOnline
Veteran
Not sure what you mean by this. It's not easy. There has been no public release of the 1Dc firmware and Canon has gone to some length and even explicitly stated that 1DcML is a no go.
Not that Canon would care that much if the ML team actually hotted up the 1Dc, but the same firmware could no doubt be loaded onto a 1Dx as well—and THAT is something that Canon doesn't want.
You don't want 4k raw. It just isn't practical. REDcode is a major piece piece of the puzzle for RED. Once you get into the higher resolutions you really need compressed raw. And I don't see any "hack" solution coming close. You need the codec, the software support and the list goes on.
How is the BMPCC doing these days? What kind of 4k raw footage can you shoot with them? Artsy raindrops running down a window for 3 seconds? Out of focus traffic lights in the night to a coffee shop soundtrack, for 5 seconds? What do I know... maybe it does work. I just don't find it interesting unless it's something similar to what RED does.
I really find it a shame that RED kind of lost its way. They were/are on to something, but I feel they are fighting windmills when they should be getting on with the "revolution".
indiawilds
Veteran
I want RED to remain successful and keep the other camera manufacturers on their toes. Unfortunately, if you check history then you will know that too often the early innovators/disrupters run out of their steam. They start with a vision and once that is achieved, they don't have another equally compelling goal to shine a guiding beacon at them and keep them motivated.
Vision is important. However execution of that dream is also very important. One needs to put all resources at innovating as well as bringing those innovations to fruition. To remain successful the early innovators need to scale up and be good at all areas. Established companies have a process to nurture innovation whereas the startups depend on a few key personnel. So the innovations happen sporadically and hence they lose steam in competing.
Now that Sony, Canon, Panasonic not to mention Arri has caught up to the high resolution game, the original appeal of RED has gone. Also with the advent of affordable Blackmagic cameras (atleast announcement and a few cameras available), followed by Aja, RED is also not the innovator/disrupter anymore. So I understand when a few of the people who want RED to be successful feel a bit down at the moment.
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
Such a shame it's so hard to port ML to the 1Dc. It would solve all the little issues it has and make it a complete piece of gear. Especially the waveform and peaking and zebras and the 1080p raw to internal cards up to 60p. And I am sure the 1DC has a much bigger buffer and memory slot speed that it would handle higher than 1080p resolution in raw, the 5D is already doing 2.5k just limited in time by the memory slot speed so theoritically it should do at least 2.5k raw. Wouldn't that be a perfect camera? Do ML absolutely have to get a released firmware update file to make it work?
sonofaresiii
Well-known member
It's not that it's so difficult, I mean I'm sure it is, but I believe Canon has said they'll mostly overlook magic lantern for their less expensive DSLR lines, but if they try and bring it to the 1dc or Cx00 line, Canon will rain down lawsuits and bury the ML team.
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
That's just a runor that went live on click-bait pages and never officially stated by anyone at Canon. But the ML just avoided the possibility even though it's probably a rumor. Anyway stating that they forbid hacking the 1Dx and 1Dc would mean a clear consent on hacking all the lower end cameras, which is something they would never do. The 1Dc might be hard to hack for the lack of public firmware updates but the 1Dx ahould be just like any 5D, and with it's much greater buffer and card write speed it can theoritically go up to 2.5k/3K raw to fast cards like the ones used for 4K on the 1DC. And they will probably find the traces for the s35 crop and even 4K. I guess they don't want to risk losing the entire project even if it's jus a rumor. So the only way is private hacking. Would anyone be interested in hacking a 1Dx or a 1Dc if he has experience for a great pay? It shouldn't be hard, just like porting it to a new 5D or so, it's just politics forbidding it. We could split the cost between a few owners if it's technically possible! I am sure there at least a few 1Dx/1Dc owners willing to pay a lot to get ML. It will not be made public, just for us.