Transcoding AVCHD and computer power
- Thread starter Gladiator
- Start date
AVCHD is a bad edit codec. So is MPEG-2. Your question is sort of moot.
The two possible AVCHD workflows are:
1) Quick news channel style chop and dice.
2) Frame accurate fine tuned edit with color correction and separate sound mix.
If doing 1, a native AVCHD w/o conversion is better, if doing 2 converting to a "fatter" codec is better.
When doing 1 - you'll consistently need CPU power to compute next frame.
When doing 2 - you waste the CPU power once when converting but will need more storage later.
I'm guessing you're doing short length, fast output to the net (sort of like number 1) and now have realised what a success story transcoding into ProRes422 from AVCHD is.
Some of these NLE's you describe are designed to do just that, a quick and dirty job. Like EDIUS Neo2, Avid News Cutter. The faster the better. Main target market is almost live shows and network news.
The two possible AVCHD workflows are:
1) Quick news channel style chop and dice.
2) Frame accurate fine tuned edit with color correction and separate sound mix.
If doing 1, a native AVCHD w/o conversion is better, if doing 2 converting to a "fatter" codec is better.
When doing 1 - you'll consistently need CPU power to compute next frame.
When doing 2 - you waste the CPU power once when converting but will need more storage later.
I'm guessing you're doing short length, fast output to the net (sort of like number 1) and now have realised what a success story transcoding into ProRes422 from AVCHD is.
Some of these NLE's you describe are designed to do just that, a quick and dirty job. Like EDIUS Neo2, Avid News Cutter. The faster the better. Main target market is almost live shows and network news.
I look at AVCHD as a container format...even if Final Cut had the ability to edit it natively, I still wouldn't cut with it. Plus, on my Mac Pro tower, transcode times are quick...much quicker than transcoding p2 media to DVC-PRO HD.
By Trasncoding to Pro-Res (or another codec), things just work better...and look really really purty.
ATL Media Group
Veteran
Get the most power PC you can. This way if you want to edit AVCHD natively, you can, and if you want to transcode, you can .
The very same issues were with HDV, DV, mjpeg and all other video editing since the start of this NLE journey.
If it were smooth to edit natively by everyone NOBODY would transcode! If it's smooth to edit for YOU on the fastest PC you can get, then why would you transcode?
ATL Media Group
Veteran
LOL.... Joking right? No? hehe. I'm callin' you on this. BS. If you could put the SDHC card into a slot on your MAC and edit straight off the card with NO wasted time transcoding or transfering files for that matter you'd do it and be here telling us how great it is.
"Things just work better".... What if they worked exactly the same w/o transcoding? Then you wouldn't transcode!
Considering PRO-RES makes things easier to send to other formats and for final distribution and broadcast (not to mention plays well with color, after effects, and other apps), yes, I would still transcode even if I could edit native AVCHD at buttery smooth speeds from my SD-card with Final Cut.
For me, footage format is more than just how it edits in the NLE...
I have a premiere cs4. It edits native AVCHD with no hiccups. I still choose to transcode.
Actually, I will be doing weddings so I would love to transcode code into ProRes422. I also do wedding photography, so I would really like to put out high quality work fast so I don't get burned out editing video.
How do I transcode to ProRes422?
Would a really fast computer speed up the transcoding process?
Or does it even matter if I could just let it transcode overnight?
Thank you for the help!
When was the last time you sent native AVCHD footage to a news room for viewing on the air?
Thank you for your help!
Check out this thread for a more user front end for FFMpeg. http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=25044&page=5 Actually he also has 2 other versions that use other transocders but I found the ffMpeg one the best.
I'm using it for DNxHD transcodes.
I'm using it for DNxHD transcodes.
ATL Media Group
Veteran
Oh.. so you are NOT editing it... Just shipping it right to a news room?
LOL
How about this... Edit native and "export" to the format for the news room?
That's my point that you apparently missed.
Sooner or later a transcode is involved.
For ease of editing, grading, titling, FX, multiple video layers, importing of other content creation, etc -- in other words, the editing process many follow -- most of us transcode.
Sooner or later a transcode is involved.
For ease of editing, grading, titling, FX, multiple video layers, importing of other content creation, etc -- in other words, the editing process many follow -- most of us transcode.
ATL Media Group
Veteran
Uh... How about you ONLY transcode *ONCE*.. That's my point that you are missing. I transcode ONE time to DVD/Blu-Ray. That's it. Once. Not on ingest and then again to output.
Simply *because* you can't edit natively doesn't mean you wouldn't like to! Stop trying to justify it. If you could edit AVCHD natively and not notice a difference between it and any intermediate codec wouldn't you LIKE to?
Uh . . . sorry, I don't get the point.
I transcode once and then export. The export doesn't require a second transcode, nor any rendering.
I'm not "trying to justfy" anything. I can work natively on my set up, but for straight cuts only and rarely at full resolution and RT.
If I could edit natively in RT and full resolution -- and that means multiple streams, fx, grading, titling, adding additional content -- of course I would.
But no one can now. Try creating some content in AE or Motion and bring it into an AVCHD native sequence? Export to mts?
You can't.
Edit how you will, but other than a basic edit and transcode on completion, AVCHD is not yet ready for RT full resolution native editing on mainstream Macs or PCs.
I transcode once and then export. The export doesn't require a second transcode, nor any rendering.
I'm not "trying to justfy" anything. I can work natively on my set up, but for straight cuts only and rarely at full resolution and RT.
If I could edit natively in RT and full resolution -- and that means multiple streams, fx, grading, titling, adding additional content -- of course I would.
But no one can now. Try creating some content in AE or Motion and bring it into an AVCHD native sequence? Export to mts?
You can't.
Edit how you will, but other than a basic edit and transcode on completion, AVCHD is not yet ready for RT full resolution native editing on mainstream Macs or PCs.
ATL Media Group
Veteran
So, you transcode to Prorez then export to Blu-Ray/DVD without transcoding to Mpeg2 or AVCHD? How so?
Hmm.. Funny. I just did! Just edited a new demo DVD and Blu-Ray in an AVCHD native sequence. Linked to a few After Effects compositions (mostly titles.. some grading) then linked to Encore. Not a single render until I "Built" DVD and Blu-Ray.
I'm not referring blu ray exports.
For that I do self contained exports and use the Compress HD.
Let's not take up any more bandwidth exchanging these message with the tenor we have. I just interested at what you consider edits, and whether you can achieve RT, full frame, full resolution native editing with multiple streams, fx, grading, titling, adding additional content without rendering
If you can, I'd prefer that workflow. Because I can that pretty handily with pro res 444 on my MacPro Nehalem, and I get to log my clips in the process.
If you can edit as I've explain, please tell me what NLE with what hardware that achieves this in RT, full resolution, and natively, how many streams, what type of color correction, etc.
best
For that I do self contained exports and use the Compress HD.
Let's not take up any more bandwidth exchanging these message with the tenor we have. I just interested at what you consider edits, and whether you can achieve RT, full frame, full resolution native editing with multiple streams, fx, grading, titling, adding additional content without rendering
If you can, I'd prefer that workflow. Because I can that pretty handily with pro res 444 on my MacPro Nehalem, and I get to log my clips in the process.
If you can edit as I've explain, please tell me what NLE with what hardware that achieves this in RT, full resolution, and natively, how many streams, what type of color correction, etc.
best
ATL Media Group
Veteran
Okay... Apparently we can't agree here.
Here's an idea. Let's stop making excuses. If we push for better performance out of an NLE, we'll get it.
Check this out:
EDIUS Neo 2 Booster actualizes the real time playback of 3 streams or more without using the special additional hardware, (this corporation test result which keeps using Core i7 CPU loading PC).
http://www.thomson-canopus.jp/press/2009/edius_neo2_booster.htm
That's right charlie... 3 streams of HD in RT off of the card, and knowing GV/Canopus, it'll be full raster RT out with FX and look awesome!
So, the FREE Neo2 that comes with many Panasonic cameras CAN do (soon) multiple streams in RT. What's gonna be the excuse for Apple this time?
"But... um.. QT roools!"
yep.
Here's an idea. Let's stop making excuses. If we push for better performance out of an NLE, we'll get it.
Check this out:
EDIUS Neo 2 Booster actualizes the real time playback of 3 streams or more without using the special additional hardware, (this corporation test result which keeps using Core i7 CPU loading PC).
http://www.thomson-canopus.jp/press/2009/edius_neo2_booster.htm
That's right charlie... 3 streams of HD in RT off of the card, and knowing GV/Canopus, it'll be full raster RT out with FX and look awesome!
So, the FREE Neo2 that comes with many Panasonic cameras CAN do (soon) multiple streams in RT. What's gonna be the excuse for Apple this time?
"But... um.. QT roools!"
yep.
Thanks.
I agree, but it's hardware and NLEs.
edit: http://syphaonline.com/SYPHAnewsitems2009/SYPHAnews20091029-08.html
I agree, but it's hardware and NLEs.
edit: http://syphaonline.com/SYPHAnewsitems2009/SYPHAnews20091029-08.html
That will all depend on how much material you shoot and how fast your machine is.
Your final delivery format is going to be DVD I'm assuming, so I would highly advise using ProRes422 vs. mucking about with MPEG-4. Especially since these will need some EFX and color correction applied to them.
My mileage on a MacBook Pro 1,1 was 1.5 hours per 5 minutes of a 17mbps 1080i stream (on the same HD).
I think what he was trying to say is Apple spend a ..... of money and effort to Optimize only one Codec for the Final Cut System and for their Intel CPU's (yes the mobile and server grade ones with SSE3 instructuions, and their GPU's - yes the ATI's and NVIDIA's) - That Codec is ProRes.
Every .... success story Apple publishes involves ProRes 422/444.
Every apple app in FCS reads and interoperates with prores with speed, renders it's previews faster and suffers less generational loss.
But Apple is not the first one to do this, DNAxHD is right there behind.
The only Codec that is universally supported with optimal speed on most editing systems is DV25. Anything else is fair game, Cineform, REDCODE, etc...
Only Avid made DNAxHD open, so if you do get sources in it, you can still load them and convert them in most software. I have not looked at the state of affairs with ProRes 422 on windows systems as of 2007, but I'm guessing it's not ideal.
When AJA made a box that would send you pure ProRes422 via firewire I was shocked. Honestly.
I'm rambling.
But like the other poster said, just like HDV and other tightly compressed formats AVCHD at some point will be fast enough for online, but other formats by then will be even faster.