The Target Market For The AF-100/101

BobDiaz

BobDiaz

The Professor
If you look at any video camera, you'll see that it's designed with a target market in mind. The AF-100/101 isn't going to be used by a consumer, nor would I expect to see it used by a $100 Million movie production.

The point of this thread is to talk about where you think it would be used. For example, I could see this camera being used in film/video schools, because it's reasonable cost and allows the students to work with shallow DOF.

What applications do you see it being used?



Bob Diaz
 
Bob... You'll be surprised by the big boys using this. The Dick sporting goods national spots, which I'm sure we a half a million dollar budgets, were all shot on the Canon 5d instead of the varicams or F900's they were using before.

I think you've seen such a shift in DPs using their own DSLRs and renting glass that this little AF100 might have a shot....


To chime in though.. The market for this camera is ME. I'm shooting a feature next year and I didn't want to use my HMC150, even though I love the camera, and I didn't want to have to deal with the Red issues, coupled with the expense. My feature will be quite a long process so renting was also out of the question.... So, in my mind the only other option would be a DSLR, but I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in that one basket... I'm now thinking of going with an AF100 as the main camera, or possibly two of them, and a couple of GH2's along with the other stuff I already have....


What I think you'll see are music videos, shorts, feature films on a budget, and commercials that are looking for the most bang for the buck.... Either way, it's super exciting times and reminds me of the excitement I had for when I bought the HVX....
 
I think it will have broad appeal for a wide range of shooters in the under $10k market. The main limitation for run and gun doc shooters is the lack of practical wide range, fast, constant speed servo zoom lenses for this format. But that will probably change down the road a bit, though good zooms will be bulky and expensive.
Lots of folks who have been struggling with the shortcomings of DSLR's will jump on this puppy for a serious A camera and relegate the DSLR to B camera role.
Lots of 1/3" and smaller format shooters will love having larger format DOF capability.
The price as announced is very competitive against both higher priced video cameras and lower priced DSLR's considering the rich feature set.
 
Personally, my DSLR will be relegated to eBay. I do love the stills resolution, but moving images are my thing.

Unfortunately, as a videophile, I can't stomach the low res, aliased output of the T2i - it seems that the 5D MKii is much more ahead in this area than I imagined.
 
For me it will be music videos and industrial videos, with the occasional odd ball short film tied in for good measure. :thumbsup:
 
Look at the price point. you've got a camera that gives you decent shallow DOF WITHOUT any of the compromises of DSLR's , has real audio recording capability, real viewing capability (HDSDI) negligible skew, no aliasing, can use a huge range of lenses with cheap adapters.
I saw the 100 prototype today at HD expo NY and while I'm bummed that it has a toy codec, AVCHD, the proto type looked darned good. I'm guessing the sensitivity of the camera I saw was about 500~ish give or take a couple of points. i looked at a lot of whip pans and the skew was so slight as to be a non factor. My head would still be spinning if I was doing the same thing with a 5D. For a 5 K price point that's a heck of a deal compared to where you are in DSLR land with all the inherent compromises the Canon's have.
THis price point is Def prosumer level. I told Jan C that I would have definitely paid the extra $ for a "grown up" version with 10 bit AVC I, which I love, but the Panasonic Business model is to sell a bunch of these cameras, so the price point/ feature set had to be adjusted accordingly. No doubt that if the AVC I version was priced a 8 K Panny calculated they would sell 15% of the cameras they would sell at 5K and they definitely want to go for unit volume so the price point is where it is.
 
The toy codec that is better than XDCam ? That toy codec?

Guess so, if you compare it to AVC-I then XDCam is the baby toy codec... heh
 
ATL Media Group said:
Trying to convince the school to get you one to "teach" with... Purely for the students eh' <wink><wink>
:smile:
Click to expand...

Don't I wish I could pull of something like that... :evil:

Sadly, I can't because I teach Electronics and Robotics. Video Production is done by a different department at El Camino College, BUT you can see my Education bias, when the first application I think of is teaching. :D

On the other hand, I do work (volunteer help) with the staff at TCTV (Torrance Community TV). Now if only I could convince the staff there that this is a must buy item. :thumbsup:


Bob Diaz
 
I feel it's worth pointing out that Panasonic's $20,000 3D camera is also AVCHD...clearly they think it's good enough for pro use, at least in some fashion.
 
You'll find people that will slam everything. The original HVX was for it's noise and it made some pretty nice images with that that made its way to broadcast and I'd say that double for the HMC150.

I think it was Peter Jackson who said that any 1080p camera is capable of producing stunning images... and I for one, would never consider shooting 16mm since HD video has hit the seen.
 
For our small production company (5 total employees), this camera is very well suited. We currently own/shoot on multiple tape based Varicams, Hvx's 5d/7d, and the Hpx300/370. We do regional and occasional national commercial broadcast work as well as documentary projects. We did try the Red route but found the workflow and reliability of the system early on to be too much of a headache. If the codec holds up like they say, this will be one hell of a bargain at it's price point. I haven't been this excited about a new camera in years.
 
Mark Smith said:
I saw the 100 prototype today at HD expo NY and while I'm bummed that it has a toy codec,

Mark in response to this I have seen this "toy" codec outperform codecs on cameras that cost much more, and I am not talking about the EX3, I am going up to 50Mbs. You consistently underestimate it, you really shouldn't. I am assuming people do this as they have not had sufficient experience with the AVCCAM implementation, and are drawing experience from the DSLRs or other consumer implementations. It is not a toy codec and it should be taken very seriously. Note that this is the same codec that is behind the 3D camera and that is being accepted by a very wide range of professionals, ones that get paid way more that I.

THis price point is Def prosumer level.
Click to expand...


here we have a differing opinion of the word prosumer. Prosumer is a person that takes a consumer product designed for a consumer and uses it in a professional application. This product was designed with the help of professionals to sit in and be used by professionals.

I told Jan C that I would have definitely paid the extra $ for a "grown up" version with 10 bit AVC I, which I love,
Click to expand...

And you can, just add the AG-HPG20 and you can have that extension into AVC-Intra.


but the Panasonic Business model is to sell a bunch of these cameras, so the price point/ feature set had to be adjusted accordingly. No doubt that if the AVC I version was priced a 8 K
Click to expand...

And here you were not paying close attention to the number I said it would cost and that was closer to $10,000. The entire inside of the camera would necessarily need to be reworked. The codec chips are more expensive, the 10 bit prep for the codec hand-off is more expensive, and then I am not sure but I think, the camera would have to be bigger.

Panny calculated they would sell 15% of the cameras they would sell at 5K and they definitely want to go for unit volume so the price point is where it is.
Click to expand...

It costs a surprising amount of money and time to R & D a camera. No different with this one. When you propose any product you have to say how you are going to pay for it with the return of sales. If the estimation of sales is not high enough, the camera will not be made. It is a business model that keeps a company alive and people working on new and innovative products and some just plain old workhorses.

Best,

Jan
Click to expand...
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
...And you can, just add the AG-HPG20 and you can have that extension into AVC-Intra.
Click to expand...

I have been wondering about this. How would the HPG-20 handle the VFR stuff recorded in 24p or 30p if it is wrapped in 60i. Wouldn't that be... (weird) IDK, couldn't think of another word.

Also, to answer the OP-

We run an entertainment group here in Houston that has a raging clue for this camera....

Within the group there is a smaller production company that deals almost exclusively in narrative films. This is the one I run. I need this camera. It combines so many things (sandwiches the best of my HMC and GH13 and adds more, and more, and, more!) and kills the need for me to rent any of the HPX series. For me, it is the ultimate solution and I think that the people who hire us, who work for us and with us, and who watch our productions will be extremely pleased with our choice.
 
When it comes to video production, I'm just a "little guy" who does things part time with video. However, I'd have to be blind, deaf, and dumb (as in stupid), not to see the interest in the AF-100/101.

I can see the interest from the interest from smaller production companies who want the film like effect and the flexibility of lenses. If any of you have seen the TV Show "Motion" on the Live Well channel, I could see them taking their productions up a few notches using this camera. (And other similar productions too.)

While Wedding Videos would be very cool with the AF-100, the cost of the camera may make the total cost for the wedding video too high, but I'm not really sure....



Bob Diaz
 
We have a studio where we shoot Branded Web Video for clients mostly in the food business. Recipe and cooking demos, mostly very planned out and choreographed.

We'll probably get two (maybe 3) of these as an in between step from the HVX's we own and the RED's that we rent.

It will give our clients another option budget wise.
 
Can somebody explain me why we in Europe have to pay 6300 us dollars for a camera that will cost 4900 in the US?
Somebody in Panasonic Europe preferably?
It shoots a worldwide standard HD so that's not the problem anymore.
It is a very promising camera as I saw with my own eyes at IBC.
Thanks for the clear explanation Jan!
 
Thomas Kist said:
Can somebody explain me why we in Europe have to pay 6300 us dollars for a camera that will cost 4900 in the US?
Somebody in Panasonic Europe preferably?
It shoots a worldwide standard HD so that's not the problem anymore.
It is a very promising camera as I saw with my own eyes at IBC.
Thanks for the clear explanation Jan!
Click to expand...

Because the 'Global' economy isn't as global as we'd all like to believe... I look out from my front window across Lake Ontario and the United States is just visible, but (just like you) the camera will probably be over $6 thousand here in Canada. Differences in business model, population density, distribution channels, and import tariffs all work to change what a product costs in any given territory.

There is a huge car manufacturing plant 20 minutes from my house - they make the Chevy Camaro - and this car is more expensive at a dealer right beside the plant than at a dealer in Texas, or Oregon, or California. Go figure.
 
Can somebody explain me why we in Europe have to pay 6300 us dollars for a camera that will cost 4900 in the US?

Not speaking for Jan, but where did you get the 4900 number? I've seen "under $6K", with street price around $5800, but nothing less - maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anything less. So the difference is only some $500 at most - and that's the official price, when you get down to street the difference will be $300 or less, though in my experience in Europe they tend to ask for the full MSRP, and there's very little difference from street price (maybe slightly better in Britain).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top