The SONY FS-700 & The Odyssey7 - Let´s hope to see some affordable HQ-Output!

It would work for me.. i own my camera's so buying only the codecs i would see myself useing (FS700 @ 4KDPX + 2K DnG @ 24/25), and renting should i ever need another looks like a good return on my investment - i'm assumeing the purchase of the limited codec i want is reasonably priced, that remains to be seen, but CD has a good track record

d
 
I'm a little worried about the 4k RAW recording options... I'm hoping they will have a serious compressed RAW recording featureset.

At the moment, they only list DPX and CanonRAW and ARRIRAW which are all uncompressed RAW or at best RLE compressed (which will probably be pretty ineffective lossless compression, maybe 1.2-1.5x at best).

That may be why Sony is saying the 7Q will only do 30fps 4k DPX from the FS700 when their recorder does 60fps, because 4k 30fps 12bit DPX runs about 400MBps which is near the max for convergent's SSDs (they say 500MBps sustained). Good luck offloading footage shot at 400MBps when most productions can barely handle 42MBps 4k Redcode RAW.

RAW is great but uncompressed 4k RAW datarates are prohibitively high for 98% of productions, and if that is their only option, many may run to RED.
 
jshbckr said:
I was hoping the Odyssey7Q would be a good alternative solution to Sony's recorder... but I'm a bit worried of all the extra charges/rentals for recording.

On their PDF, they list a bunch of 7Q features as "extra cost options". Does this mean that paying $xxx for recording functionality doesn't necessarily include high-speed recording? And it will cost $xxx more to enable that? Sounds like you're going to get nickled-and-dimed. Hopefully that's not the case but until I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume it is.
Click to expand...

Isn't CinemaDNG (2K RAW) open file format? Why would there be any fees for CinemaDNG?
 
nyvz said:
I'm a little worried about the 4k RAW recording options... I'm hoping they will have a serious compressed RAW recording featureset.

At the moment, they only list DPX and CanonRAW and ARRIRAW which are all uncompressed RAW or at best RLE compressed (which will probably be pretty ineffective lossless compression, maybe 1.2-1.5x at best).

That may be why Sony is saying the 7Q will only do 30fps 4k DPX from the FS700 when their recorder does 60fps, because 4k 30fps 12bit DPX runs about 400MBps which is near the max for convergent's SSDs (they say 500MBps sustained). Good luck offloading footage shot at 400MBps when most productions can barely handle 42MBps 4k Redcode RAW.

RAW is great but uncompressed 4k RAW datarates are prohibitively high for 98% of productions, and if that is their only option, many may run to RED.
Click to expand...

Yes, they should have more 4K options. Maybe 4K XAVC or/and 4K compressed CinemaDNG like on the new blackmagic
 
nyvz said:
I'm a little worried about the 4k RAW recording options... I'm hoping they will have a serious compressed RAW recording featureset.
Click to expand...

+1

As i mentioned in the other thread, i'm guessing there's no 4K RAW recording via the Odessey. I've only heard the words 4K uncompressed which for a camera at this price point ,bearing in mind the audience, is quite unwieldy.

cheers
paul
 
i put the same one on the other thread about FS700+external recorder but it was major relief to me so i would like to share with you guys here.

i just had a conversation with Sony people (from NXCAM division of Sony Japan) and they said that cost of FS700 hardware upgrade is going to be around $300. it's not from the official announcement yet however it's pretty confirmed number we will get very soon from Sony officially.

It's based on JPN Yen calculation but hey, it's not like that ridiculously expensive one for F3 last time! :)

i'll get S-Log2 equipped FS700 next week for little test so will post more info about it too!

freiheit
http://www.freiheit.jp
https://vimeo.com/user3743407
https://vimeo.com/51128941
 
Dear Friends,

We have permission from Sony to record, from the FS700 in 2K Raw.

We do not have permisson to record in 4K Raw, but we do have permission to record in 4K uncompressed.

If this changes, we, of course, will let you know.

We hope everyone knows that we are honored to be working so closely with Sony.

The 2K Raw at up to 240 fps continously is a big deal.

And 4K Raw and/or uncompressed is a lot a data (as most people already know) at 60 fps.

And there are very valid reasons to shoot 4K Raw at 60 fps, but please remember 4K at lower frame rates such as 23.976 (23.98, 24, 25, 29.97 and 30) have great value.

If one has a feature film at 4K, 24fps, a short slow-mo sequence in 2K would probably not be noticed as being in a lower resolution. I feel people will notice the slow motion as opposed to the loss in resolution.

And please note that the 2K Raw from the FS700, is full resolution, not a windowed image from the sensor, as this is most important.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Thanks, Dan

I see strange X2:

"- FS700 Support: HD/2K Raw up to 240fps (.dng format) "

and

"- HD/2K Raw: up to 120fps (.dng format)."

Open secrets - FS700 output again half horizontal resolution for 240 fps?

best reg
Olga
 
olgagroza said:
Thanks, Dan

I see strange X2:

"- FS700 Support: HD/2K Raw up to 240fps (.dng format) "

and

"- HD/2K Raw: up to 120fps (.dng format)."

Open secrets - FS700 output again half horizontal resolution for 240 fps?

best reg
Olga
Click to expand...


Dear Olga,

Your first quote is from our FS700 option. In this option, we can record, from the FS700, up to 240 fps in 2K Raw.

Please note that this is not from a windowed sensor, and there should be no image artifacts or moire.

And in this mode, the FS700 outputs full resolution, not half resolution.


Your second quote is from a different option, one for five specialized cameras, not the FS700, so the maximum frame rate supported is different.

The cameras are IO Industries, Indiecam, Lux Media Plan, Weisscam, and P&S Technik.

I hope this helps.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
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Ok, Dan,

Five others cameras output real 2K resolution on 120 fps,
and FS700 output for 2K resolution on 240 fps, and O7Q record this dual stream (120 vs 240)... Magical?

"no image artifacts or moire", but (for example) 5Dm3 does not have the same moire, and unfortunately has no _REAL_ HD resolution, and although rec 1920x1080 :embarasse
Will we see a real resolution 2K or it will be "blurry 2K" on O7Q?


best reg
Olga
 
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You're reading it wrong. What Dan means is that the Odyssey will not introduce any artifacts to the image. Whatever comes out of the camera, artifacty or not, will be faithfully reproduced.
 
Damn!
Thanks-thanks-thanks-Mitch!

So... If on FS700 at 240 fps real output 960x540 doubler pixels (I don't know, for example again)... and the Q7 will write them honestly, yeah? how 1920x1080 :happy:

Ok! Br
Olga
 
The FS700 always outputs 1920x1080. Up to 240fps this s the resolution the sensor uses. Up to 480fps the sensor is scanned at 1920x540, and then the lines are doubled to output a 1920x1080 signal. Up to 960 frames the resolution drops to 1920x270, then is quadrupled back up to 1920x1080 for output.
 
Convergent Design SSD's are bloody expensive... still less than Sony's AXSM cards though, based on price per Gb.

What are the bit depths in 2K RAW and 4K uncompressed .DPX please ? I'm geussing no more than 10 bits...
 
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evilthought said:
Let's wait for the official release before asking questions and claiming things.

2K is supposed to be full resolution 2K resolution at 240 fps ... That's the official claim from Sony
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It appears the sensor drops sampling resolution past 60 fps. Full resolution 240 is marketing spin, just like Canon saying the 5D3 is a full 1920x1080p HD camera (really 1620x910 at best) ;)
 
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