The SONY FS-700 & The Odyssey7 - Let´s hope to see some affordable HQ-Output!

mediaplexx

mediaplexx

Active member
Hi there,

as already mentioned in my "mini-review" of the FS700here:

"What I don´t like (about the actual situation with the FS700):

- only 8Bit (internally)
Hopefully the upcoming firmware-upgrade will bring at least 10bit HD-SDI-output for affordable recording options (like the odyssey 7!!!) IF NOT: I´ll see the tear running down my cheek :-(

- Even though I think the grain looks nice: the BITRATE should be higher
(maybe with a future-upgrade) to get an even more filmlike grain and more robust footage for colorgrading
- the (actual) 4K-Option seems more like joke! Sorry but did You already see the unaffordable 4K-setup (and the unavoidable frankenstein-rig)?

Let´s hope Sony will at least allow to get nice and clean 10Bit 60fps@1080p out of this good guy! 4K would be a dream, pushing the FS700 (& of course the Odysseys) sales up to the sky - 1000%!!!!
Let´s hope Convergent Design won´t charge too much for the software (don´t forget, the codecs will be offered as a rental option....this could activate the company´s "need" or desire to make even more profit - this thought, because a deal like this has an extreme amount of potential!!!)
Let´s try to get both companies attention and try to influence the "future" by putting this thread into a: Sticky, "SONY FS-700 & The Odyssey7" thread -

Thank you in advance for participating!
 
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Quote from my Twitter feed:

"@SamiSanpakkila 27 Mar @ConvergentD Any info on whether it will work with FS700 4K output?

‏@ConvergentD 28 Mar @SamiSanpakkila looking likely, stay tuned! ;)"

If it happens question is how much will it cost...
 
@ConvergentDesign via Twitter on the statement:"@CinematiczMedia: @ConvergentD Curious if you have already considered Sony Raw for the Odyssey7. Would be an excellent option for the Sony FS700!!! #FS700

Answer:"oh yes! We've said we'll support from the beginning, it's up to Sony to open the kimono. Stay tuned for an announcement! ;)"

An other reason for hope - don't you think?
 
Dear Friends,

I am the Director of Sales and Marketing for Convergent Design.

There are lots of reason for hope.

We hope to have an announcement in around 9 days or less.

It is important to get final approvals before any formal announcement is made.

There are many FS700's, and adding 4K to the FS700 is attractive (and useful). And there are other benefits.

As soon as we get final approval, we will be working on this very diligently.

Our relationship with Sony is very close. We will let you know as soon as we can.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dear Friends,

We currently plan on announcing pricing for our recorder options in May.

The Odyssey7 is $1,295 (monitor only)
The Odyssey7Q is $2,295 (monitor only)

For the FS700, you will most likely want to own the Odyssey7Q as it has greater computational capabilities, which allows for higher frame rates and important other features.



Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dan Keaton said:
Dear Friends,

I am the Director of Sales and Marketing for Convergent Design.

There are lots of reason for hope.

We hope to have an announcement in around 9 days or less.

It is important to get final approvals before any formal announcement is made.

There are many FS700's, and adding 4K to the FS700 is attractive (and useful). And there are other benefits.

As soon as we get final approval, we will be working on this very diligently.

Our relationship with Sony is very close. We will let you know as soon as we can.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
Click to expand...

Thank you Dan for staying in touch! Can you say something about the rates and software-options?

Is it possible to buy a software for a specific codec instead of just renting it?

Theoretical question: Should we expect 4k Raw, 2K raw, 10bit, 24-30fps, 50-60fps, or even 240fps?

Did you do any tests with the Sony FS700's HDSDI output?

Sorry for all the questions...the opportunity simply has to be used...

Thanx in advance for what you can or are allowed to tell :-)
 
Dear Friends,

Our "Compressed Codec" Option is planned for puchase only, due to the moderate cost of this option.

Our currently planned other options are: (And these are available for Rent or Purchase.)

Full Uncompressed which also includes a High Frame Rate support.

ARRIRAW

Canon 4K Raw

And for the Odyssey7 only, an option that allows recording from 2 to 4 cameras simultaneously.

I have purposely omitted any FS700 specific options. These are, of course planned.
(And it should be clear that we hope to make an announcement in around 9 days or so.)

We expect to start testing with the FS700 very soon. We hope to start testing this week.

We also expect to have an FS700 + Odyssey7Q on our booth at NAB.

I hope this helps.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dan Keaton said:
Dear Friends,

Our "Compressed Codec" Option is planned for puchase only, due to the moderate cost of this option.

Our currently planned other options are: (And these are available for Rent or Purchase.)

Full Uncompressed which also includes a High Frame Rate support.

ARRIRAW

Canon 4K Raw

And for the Odyssey7 only, an option that allows recording from 2 to 4 cameras simultaneously.

I have purposely omitted any FS700 specific options. These are, of course planned.
(And it should be clear that we hope to make an announcement in around 9 days or so.)

We expect to start testing with the FS700 very soon. We hope to start testing this week.

We also expect to have an FS700 + Odyssey7Q on our booth at NAB.

I hope this helps.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
Click to expand...

Thank you again! What pricerange can we expect for the different (FS700-relevant) options?
A) renting-rate(s)
B) purchase

Thanks for participating!!!
 
Dear Friends,

I cannot discuss frame rates at this time.

This has to wait for the announcement, sorry.

And our rental and purchase prices can't be released right now.

Any company can be blind-sided by other companies at NAB. And we want to guage the potential demand for various options before we set prices.

The point has been made that the Odyssey7 familiy will be very popular with the FS700, resulting in a large number of sales of our units, and rental or purchase of the necessary recording options. We agree completely. This is a win for both Sony and our company.

More interest, more demand, and eventually more purchases allow a company to establish a lower price.

For those that want to be able to record from the FS700, using the highest resolutions, and highest frame rates, will want to have the Odyssey7Q.

The reason for this will become clear later when we can divulge more information.

But, for some, the Odyssey7 will be a very nice solution and will cost less that the Odyssey7Q.

I am trying to walk a tightrope here.

We understand that you would like as much information as possible.

We are allowed to discuss some information, but some has to remain held back for multipe reasons.

Here is an example, we have a great deal of confidence in our Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q. And the Odyssey7Q is capable of very high frame rates.

But, the actual frame rate limit depends on multiple factors, including what recording option, compressed, uncompressed or raw, and the capabilities of the camera and the communication path from the camera to the recorder.

It is very rewarding that their is so much interest in the FS700 and our recording solution.

We announced our Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q prior to NAB, for many reasons, but the foremost reasons were to get the word out so that these discussions could take place, we could guage the market, and more people would know to come to our booth at NAB, if they were interested.

NAB is a very large show and it is helpful to have a game plan or roadmap in advance.

If you have NAB in your plans, our Booth is C6713, in the Cental Hall.

And as we have time, we will post updates on our website, www.Odyssey7.info

I hope this helps.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
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Dan,

I just want to chime in and say that I hope you guys have worked something out for if someone needs the codec for a longer period than they had rented for and don't have internet access.

I'd hate to be on a shoot with five more setups but at midnight findout that my codec rental just expired.
 
1 question.... i wonder if u guys are going to develop some kind of hood for your monitors/recorders? a must have accessory for the out side work!
 
BobbyMurcerFan said:
I just want to chime in and say that I hope you guys have worked something out for if someone needs the codec for a longer period than they had rented for and don't have internet access.

I'd hate to be on a shoot with five more setups but at midnight findout that my codec rental just expired.
Click to expand...

Dear Friends,

Our rental system has options to attempt to prevent such an issue.

First, rental periods start when you activate them, and end 24 hours later, thus unless you activated the rental period at midnight, it will not end at midnight.

The rental periods are 24 hours each, but you can order (on-line, when you have internet access), an appropriate number of rental periods to cover yourself for unexpected situations.

So, lets say you have a 6 day shoot. You could just order 6 rental periods, or you could order more.

(I expect that we will implement a way so that you can receive one authorization code for any number of rental days.)

The authorization code(s) for each rental period should be entered into the Odyssey7 or Odyssey7Q.

The Odyssey7Q will validate the codes entered. Thus ensuring that you will be ready to go when you arrive on-set.

During the shoot, you could order more rental periods, from anywhere you have internet access, if you wish, and then call (if possible) to the shoot so that the additional codes could be entered into the unit.

And I expect us to use our iPhone/IPad app, when communicates with our Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q to make obtaining rental period authorization codes very easy.

Here is the important part.

Each 24 hour rental period does not start until you activate the rental period.

Thus, before the shoot, you order, and enter the code(s) for the rental periods for a recording option.

And you enter the code(s) into the unit (or iPhone/iPad receives the codes and transmittes them to the unit for you).

But, you should wait until you are actually on-set, about to shoot before you press "Activate Rental Period".

When you do, this starts a 24 hour countdown timer for one rental period (24 hours). After 24 hours the countdown ends, and you can not record until you activate another 24 hour rental period.

If your shoot is delayed before the first day of shooting, you will have not lost any rental periods.

If you shoot is interrupted, say you shoot for 2 days, and have to stop for weather, just do not activate additional rental periods and they will not be used, thus saving them for the future. Any currently activated 24 hour rental period, will however, countdown to zero.

It will be easy, 15 minutes or so prior to start shooting each day, press the "Activate Rental Option" icon.
This will start the 24 hour countdown timer. If you have time left from the previous rental period, then this new period will start without interruption, when the previous period ends.

Our Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q will keep you informed of the rental status in an unobtrusive way. And you will have a Rental Status screen which will give you much more information.

If you fail to "Activate Rental Option", the unit will alert you to the fact by multiple signals,

1. A message will be presented on the monitor,

2. A very visible watermark will be present on the image of the monitor.


During the shoot, you can see the rental period status, with appropriate warnings that time is getting low.

Now, it is much harder to explain this in writing than it is to actually perform these simple steps.


Now, to make things easier, so that you only have to press "Activate Rental Period" only once, you will be able to activate multiple days at one time.

However, while this saves one from pressing "Activate Rental Period" each day, while setting up the camera and the Odyssery7 or Odyssey7Q, if your shoot is interrupted, the rental periods will count down to zero without interruption, thus possibly wasting rental days.

If you have a planned 6 day shoot, and it could go to 8, then you can order 8 days (if you will be without internet access), then the unused days will be saved in the Odyssey7 or Odyssey7Q for later use.


Renting an Odyssey7 is easy, just go on-line and complete the transaction, which can be done 24 hours, from anywhere you have internet access, or via an associate that has internet access.

Thus, there are no hassles, as different time zones do not get in the way. And there are no insurance certficates required for the rental options. And there is no shipping involved, the codes are provide instantly. And one does not waste rental days for shipping to the set or back.

And if you rent for xx days, and use less for any reason, you will still have the excess days for use in the future.
(Each rental period counts down from 24 hours to zero, without interruption, once activated.)

Another important part, is that a spare (Monitor Only) Odyssey7 or OdysseyQ is relatively low cost.

Thus, when appropriate you can take two units into the field, then if one is damaged, or if any failure occurs, then you can activate the spare unit.

Until the need arrises, the spare unit can be used for playback of any footage recorded on any Odyssey7.

Please note that during camera prep, and for preparing for a shoot in general, one can record, without obtaining any rental periods, using any camera and format that the unit supports. But, there will be a permanent watermark in the image recorded.

This allows you to prepare for a shoot by testing various cameras, without using any rental days. If you have to shoot without a watermark (a line through the image), then you can rent the option for one day.


We will be listening to our customers and potential customers while we implement all of what I just discussed.

If we, or our customers find a better way, we will do our best to implement the better way.
Thus, there may be changes to what I have just described


We think our rental plan is very fair, very flexiable, has great advantages, and is very workable.

We will also have procedures to protect rental houses. For example, if you rent the Odyssey7 or Odyssey7Q, then the rental house should be obtaining the authorization codes.

Please understand, it is hard to describe all of the feature, benefits, and simple procedures to use our rental options in a post such as this.

But, in practice, we expect it to be very easy.


In case you have not heard:

Odyssey7 $1,295 (US)
Odyssey7Q $2,295 (US)

Initial Shipping Dates:

Odyssey7Q July 2013
Oodyssey7 Shortly thereafter

The Compressed Codec Option will be purchase only due to the moderate cost.

Other rental and purchase prices will be available in May.


I hope this helps.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design












On another
 
Dan Keaton said:
More interest, more demand, and eventually more purchases allow a company to establish a lower price.

For those that want to be able to record from the FS700, using the highest resolutions, and highest frame rates, will want to have the Odyssey7Q.
Click to expand...

I would really hope that you could get 4K Raw 25fps for around 3000 USD... That's kind of what I was hoping the Sony solution would cost when I got the FS700.
 
Dear Friends,

Yes, we will be offering a Sun Shade (Hood) for our Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q.

Our remote control, iPad/iPhone/Android app, which is a two-way remote control, will help when using our hood.

The recording status, more info, and timecode will be displayed on the iPad/iPhone/Android app.

And the app can control the unit.

Respecfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dan Keaton said:
Our remote control, iPad/iPhone/Android app, which is a two-way remote control, will help when using our hood.

The recording status, more info, and timecode will be displayed on the iPad/iPhone/Android app.

And the app can control the unit.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... Would it be possible to add an option to be able to playback a song from inside the ipad/iphone app and have the timecode in sync with the recorded video? I shoot a lot of music videos and this would be an incredible feature.
 
Dear Essami,

I feel that I do not fully understand your request.

Generally, the timecode is generated in the camera, and the Odyssey7 or any other recorder accepts the timecode and records it with the video.

Alternatively, an external timecode source is create, or a recorder generates the timecode.

But, the timecode has to increment by one for each video frame recorded.

Thus, I do not understand how the Odyssey7 can control the frame rate of the camera.

Of course, there is the very real possibility that I do not understand what you would like us to do.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
A big THANK YOU to Dan Keaton from Conergent Design for his effort in joining us here and giving such great amount of information!!! Do you need a german tester with a FS700 for the Odyssey? If yes, than let me know :-)

What would interest me is, what mounting options you consider to make it operator-friendly and compact (if possible).

thx
 
Dan Keaton said:
I feel that I do not fully understand your request.
Click to expand...

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the response! There's a lot of if's here but my idea would be that when you hit record on Odyssey7 simultaneously the app starts playback of the song and log's both the start position of the camera timecode and the song position. Then you could export this information as text or EDL info to your editor and one can line up each clip to the song based on these two timecodes.

Info you would need: Clip name 0061.MTS, camera timecode start 01:00:25:08, song timecode start 00:00:45:12. This would be all the info you need to easily and accurately place the video clip to the corresponding point on the song on your NLE's timeline. I imagine the app could log all this info easily if I understood how it works correctly?

There could be a more simple way to realize lipsync. How I work now is that I use an iPad app called MovieSlate that displays the timecode of the song on the iPad screen. I shoot the slate in the beginning of each shot so I see the timecode of the song in the beginning of each video clip. It is not however frame accurate so I always have to adjust it a few frames. But it's quite simple and fast as is but incorporating something similar in the Odyssey7 app would be amazing.

Sami
 
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