The New F

[DendriteStudios]

Now people are talking some sense. If you want to gain market share you need to beat your competition. Plain and simple. Included specs and price just simply don't cut it.

 

[electricjib]

A few pages back people talking about the lack of credibility for info on RU? Are you kidding? I'd believe rumors and posts on there almost more than any other place. Sure there are some snobs and fanboys, but many have a ton of credibility and respect for what they do.

Plus why would anyone on RU have a reason to lie about specs? As it stands right now I couldn't give a squat about this camera simply based on the specs we've seen. Sure RED's have therd drawbacks but as it stands I wouldn't want to deal with the cost of what is being spoken of right now. I'd rather own a Scarlet kit and not have to pay a premium to shoot 4K, buy buying a 15-20K external recorder alone...what a rip off.

I think those talking about RED's raw and workflow being complicated or difficult, it really only was if you were stuck in FCP 7, worked in FCP X until a few days ago, or didn't have Premiere. But honestly I work/edit straight with the raw files and really have no issues at all. I actually find it faster than working with nearly any other system. And I'm the furthest thing from a fanboy, i've been way more critical than most on there cameras. But at this point there really isn't anything touching the Scarlet or Epic for the price of either.

 

[Grug]

From the enthusiasm I'm hearing from those in the know I think it's unlikely that we'll see a camera priced outside of current spec/price levels.

 

[Duke M.]

East Coast part of the announcement might get a little messed up due to Sandy. I am scheduled to be part of the Facebook chat coming live from Sony in Park Ridge (NJ) but at this point weather is not going to cooperate. Jon Fauer is supposed to be introducing and it remains to be seen whether any of us can get to Park Ridge.

I should hopefully have all of the final info from Sony before Tues in order to have an article ready to post the moment embargo is lifted.

That's pretty rotten timing really. You do realize that AFM, the biggest film industry event in North America and in the top three in the world is doing set ups on the 30th because it opens the 31st. I'll be there to cut deals, not trying to look at some thread on my cell phone. LOL

 

[Tim Nitsch]

Nobody is s*%tting on anything, this is pure economic evaluation.

Really, how can you even say that?

It won't cost less then RED once you add ext. recorder, so who cares.

^ yes indeed, Sony has it backwards.

This is ass backwards, or like pissing in the wind.

As they say here in Canada on the TV show Dragon's Den, "I'm out."

And these are from the first couple pages alone....

Listen it's a public forum so really you can say what ever you want, all I'm saying is that if you don't like the camera, then don't buy it.
But at least give Sony a chance to release the thing before you put it down for not being everything that you hoped and dreamed for.

 

[JCummings]

I think he may have just bought a RED...perhaps he's a little uneasy about that purchase after hearing the Sony announcement.

 

[Grug]

I think he may have just bought a RED...perhaps he's a little uneasy about that purchase after hearing the Sony announcement.

I'm not sure it's even possible to buy any camera these days without feeling uneasy about imminent announcements.

 

[bruceallen]

The niche where this can fit in is here:
Epic and the Scarlet don't write broadcast-ready fully-debayered HD files in camera. Unless you add the $11,000 Meizler module which hasn't been released yet.
You don't want 4K in camera and HD via an external box - that's backwards! You want HD in camera and 4K would be nice in camera but not essential.

The company I work for owns a Red Rocket but it hasn't been used in ages since they shoot mostly Alexa to ProRes now (because of the improved turnaround times, workflow and great image out of the box).

If Sony makes a camera with:
- excellent HD recording internally
- an option to go to a Ki Pro Quad or Sony recorder for 4K at 60fps
- great image quality
- ND filters
Then yes, it is definitely a contender. Even if it costs $20,000.

My prediction is that Sony will announce it for like $25,000 and their own recorder for $10,000 and everyone will complain.
Then the camera will list for $22,000 and work with a $5,000 Ki Pro Quad.
Then there will be a ton of the usual Sony rebates and 0% financing. You can get it with some decent lenses for cheap, etc.

And in the end, we'll just get another nice rental option!

BTW RED just announced a price drop for Epic - price to be announced Oct 31.

As always, the filmmakers are the real winners in all of this - and we don't even have to buy a camera

And for the record, I still like that F35 Macgregor bought used...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[starcentral]

Listen it's a public forum so really you can say what ever you want, all I'm saying is that if you don't like the camera, then don't buy it.
But at least give Sony a chance to release the thing before you put it down for not being everything that you hoped and dreamed for.

Hey Tim, I like to get my jabs in where I can and I don't need Sony or any manufacturer to release something to know it will dissappoint me in some way. Like many others in this forum I've been buying cameras for well over a decade and I know as well as the next guy that even when you spend $15k on an F3 there are still things missing from it. How many professional cameras have you bought in your lifetime and which ones?

The New F will be no different giving us "X" when we've asked for "Y". But putting all our crazy dream camera wishes aside, for this new thing to really BEAT the competition it needs to deliver on certain features, specs and price. All of us here including me genuinely want this to be a home run but some of us have our doubts. If you've spent any time in the F3 forums you'd know that most people here don't care about 4k (let alone RAW) and plan to shoot HD until they get old and grey. Low bitrate values of the F3 have already been worked around and many are really really happy with the images from it. I know I am and I'm only shooting 8-bit 420 with it! So really who is the new F camera going to aimed towards?

Sony is hyping this thing up like its going to be MORE than what everyone has asked for... but we shall see... only a few more days left to go and we'll all find out.

I think he may have just bought a RED...perhaps he's a little uneasy about that purchase after hearing the Sony announcement.

Actually, you couldn't be more incorrect.

It was the Sony announcement itself (and killer deal offer RED had) that lead me to go out and purchase a RED camera for my film work. I was THAT doubtful that this new F camera in-between the F3 and F65 would A.) offer cheap 4k RAW recording, and B.) cost only a "little bit" more than the F3 to be "fully functional".

More and more I actually think it will cost less plus be more beneficial to own both the F3 and RED camera than to try and get the new F camera running 4k RAW!

The niche where this can fit in is here:
Epic and the Scarlet don't write broadcast-ready fully-debayered HD files in camera. Unless you add the $11,000 Meizler module which hasn't been released yet.

...or like many just use an external HD recorder ie. AJA, Atmos, PIX, Gemini, BlackMagic Shuttle, etc..

 

[txdp]

Red is drastically reducing the price of epic nov 1st. Just thought I'd share, for what it's worth.

 

[Peter G. Johnson]

Which comes first with Sony? Quality or commerce?

Which comes first with Sony? Quality or commerce?

Forums like these are a good social medium, but are they making any difference to the products that Sony are releasing? This year they've produced so many new and different cameras and I for one couldn't care less for any of them because they all offer features that both impress and contradict one another, so it leads me to think....

is Sony about trying to making an all round quality product or are they just compiling feedback from customers on varied $incomes$ and producing cameras with the bare minimum specs? Are they about making money first and then considering the product, or the other way around, or both at the same time?

I purchased a PMW-F3K last year but it wasn't until I added a Pix 240 (10bit & 220Mbps) and an Alphatron EVF before it was THE camera that I saw as better than a C300 or comparable to a Scarlet. (Still worked out cheaper, but not very neat.)

So.... if I were the 'Sony King' here is what I would realistically deliver unto my towns people for $20,000:

PMW-F5
* 10bit
* 220Mbps
* 4:2:2 internal
* 4K to external device
* Internal ND filters
* 60fps at 1080p
* 120fps at 720p
* Full 35mm sensor
* CBK-RGB01 installed
* PL Mount
* (Optional E Mount)
* $1000 rebate for the all the suckers (like me) who bought the CBK-RGB01 full price

....and now, please feel free to shoot me down in flames....

 

[ectobuilder]

I cannot confirm what someone under NDA may or may not have leaked.

I must say that the thread is becoming interesting and that some speculation is pretty close. But I won't say what speculation. And to those who still haven't gotten the joke, the F54 Photoshop job is very clever-- but totally wrong.

Tuesday will be an interesting day.

Ned

In that case, my new speculation is that Sony will announce the merger or takeover of Convergent Design and therefore has integrated their Gemini 444 recording capability right onto the PCB board of the "New F" camcorder. This will give a variety of recording formats such as ProRes422 Proxy all the way up to ProRes444 HQ.

Then externally the 4K out continues to hold true.

 

[ectobuilder]

Well Ned did say Scarlet and C500, those are two different prices/ two different cameras =P

All I ask for is give me all the ProRes options internally along with 800% dynamic range through S-Log and allow for the use of CF Card and standard 2.5" SSD Drives as recording media. And a small form factor similar to a DSLR. AND under $10K.

 

[ectobuilder]

Well Ned did say Scarlet and C500, those are two different prices/ two different cameras =P

Right or wrong this held me back on the cheap Scarlet deal.

That was probably their tactic. That descision could have bluffed me big time, or saved me from buying a raw only camera which is not what I really want.

I bought the 7d to get 25p about a week before 25p came to the 5d - financial mistake

The whole thing is a lottery.

Id prefer pre announcements to nothing - Id prefer a solid clear open road map so much more..

S

Well with Magic Lantern working on the 7D, it would appear to be a better investment today though! If you're selling let me know!

 

[morgan_moore]

let go of the 7d on the Fs100 launch

 

[ectobuilder]

On a camera design, what would companies like Sony have to file patents on?

A lot of credible leaks come from the patent filings. Such as when the Cell Processor of the Playstation 3 was filed back in the year 2001 or so.

 

[Liam Hall]

On a camera design, what would companies like Sony have to file patents on?

A lot of credible leaks come from the patent filings. Such as when the Cell Processor of the Playstation 3 was filed back in the year 2001 or so.

We're getting leaks at the moment because Sony's PR company are running a campaign to build up interest in the release. I'm sure many of the people who have previewed the camera and signed NDAs were chosen simply so that they would leak tit-bits of info adding further to the expectation. Twitter is full of comments from people in the "know" with comments like, "OMG," wow' and "game changer." It reminds me of the hype approaching the launch of FCPX. I just hope I'm not a disappointed with this Sony announcement as I was with Apple's.

 

[John Andersson]

To WOW me this new camera has to tick alot of boxes. Now Sony has the IQ in the F3 and the functions in the FS700 so a merger of these into a new form factor priced inbetween with all glorious internal 10-bit 4:2:2 2K/4K recording might make me go WOW!

 

[Jay Birch]

I said about 30 pages back that RED would make alot of fuss this week. Isn't the timing just great! RED magically finds a way to lower prices and perfect the calculations the same day as theNewF is announced. Makes me laugh that their buzzword is "transparency". I agree Jim, you are completely transparent!

All good news for the consumer though... Cheaper Epics and a good sign that the Sony is going to be great and has the competition rattled.

 

[Darren Levine]

i'll bite. here's my prediction and thought process:

As the F3 is discontinued, this is the new F3, whatever they may call it

as a replacement, it's no longer possible for them to hurt sales of the f3,

They will design it in the same theme as the c300/red smaller form factor

it will have the features of the fs700 and the F3 combined, and a few little new things as well, with an overall improvement in each facet

it will cost a little less than what the F3 sold for, more than a fs700 by a decent chunk(and could be they lower the fs700 price to do so) so the 9000-13000 range.

it still means i'm waiting for my BMC, but im sure i would love to shoot on this

this to me is the exact same announcement as the C300 was. All NDA signers were blown away, the specs were amazing, the eventual professionally shot footage was amazing, etc...