DendriteStudios
Active member
I always expect a sandwich 3 hours after call.:happy:
The New F
- Thread starter nsoltz
- Start date
- Status
bruceallen
Well-known member
I think I'm a decent colorista! What did you think of the grading tutorial I did for some shots in Tom Lowe's TimeScapes trailer?
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?68295-Color-Correction-for-quot-TimeScapes-4K-quot
If something is RAW doesn't mean that every color in the scene has been captured.
RAW is still only a capture of what the sensor sees.
So, if the sensor has color filters that filter out or let through the wrong wavelengths in the wrong quantities, your color can suffer.
So even if it's RAW, the sensor has an extremely important effect on color.
And yes the Sony / Nikon DSLR thing is tantalizing because the D800's colors seem quite good. They're also collaborating on the D600 - it obviously shares the same sensor with Sony's A99, RX1, VF900, etc. But haven't seen enough from it to judge color.
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
jameswmulryan
Active member
Thinking the camera will match prices with the C500.
A really good sony viewfinder runs 3,000-10,000 each.
A redesigned body rather than a bolt on EX3 costs bucks.
I don't see this model costing less than 25,000.
If you throw in a Cabrio lens- 40 K, Matte Box, bridge plate, etc-10K
you are approaching 75K
Kind of in the range of the original Sony 900 HDCAM
Kind of doubt the 2% of total capital outlay-- $1500/day rental formula will play out here.
A really good sony viewfinder runs 3,000-10,000 each.
A redesigned body rather than a bolt on EX3 costs bucks.
I don't see this model costing less than 25,000.
If you throw in a Cabrio lens- 40 K, Matte Box, bridge plate, etc-10K
you are approaching 75K
Kind of in the range of the original Sony 900 HDCAM
Kind of doubt the 2% of total capital outlay-- $1500/day rental formula will play out here.
jameswmulryan
Active member
Starcentral:
How are you going to get 4k internally? Have you looked at the data rates for the F65-- fiber optic connectors, huge. The 35mbs sxs cards are already a stretch for shooting Slog on the F3
How are you going to get 4k internally? Have you looked at the data rates for the F65-- fiber optic connectors, huge. The 35mbs sxs cards are already a stretch for shooting Slog on the F3
Viddovation
Veteran
If there is onboard 4k recording, it'll likely be with some compression.
As for SxS, there's actually quite a bit of headroom over the XDCAM 422 HD 50Mbps used by ENG cameras. The Alexa uses SxS to ProRes HQ, and the new 64GB cards can even handle the Alexa at 120fps. So it may be within the realm of possibility to record a compressed 4k signal to SxS.
starcentral
Veteran
Recording internally is much easier to do than recording to an external device where bus data has to be converted to high speed serial ports... if recording was internal you also wouldn't have the extra cost and footprint needed to convert data off the bus to an external interface like high speed serial or optical.
The Sony SRMASTER media cards can handle 5Gbps and are already being usd for external Sony 4k recorders to record double bayer 16-bit RAW data streams - data rates are definitely not the issue here.
I think what most people would expect or want to see for $5000-$6000 more than the F3 price is an internal codec for both 1080p and 4k. It doesn't have to be "RAW" internal, but at least have the ability to record 4k internally otherwise how far off from a FS700 is it for only DOUBLE the price?
Last edited:
Admit One
Active member
John Andersson
Well-known member
If Canon can do 4K internally in the 1DC a camera like the F3 should have the necessary space to accommodate it also.
starcentral
Veteran
Yes but Canon is doing 4k internally at 8-bit 420... and I hardly see that as meeting any future broadcast specifications.
Liam Hall
Veteran
It might only be 8-bit 4:2:0, but it looked good projected in 4K.
starcentral
Veteran
Yes and I shoot, grade and delvier 8-bit 420 originating video - but it still doesn't meet certain broadcast specs.
Just sayin'
I think people get somewhat hung up on "broadcast specs". In the case of TVCs for example, none of the networks ever ask what I shot on. I upload via dubsat, meeting the requirements and thats it, just as one example.
Shane Hurlbut will no doubt be using the 1DC's going forward so ask him if he cares if the origination is up to BBC broadcast spec. He'd probably say, "yeah what are you talking to me for?". In the case of the C300, for me anyway, the 8bit - 50mbps 4:2:2 codec strikes a great balance of usability and size.
Im sure this new F - based on its market timing is going to address some user wants in this space. High frame rates comes to mind. If they release footage, I dont want to see mountains or flowers or ..... Im sure the camera will be sharp enough and deliver on DR. I want to see people in a narrative setting and see how it renders motion and skin tones.
starcentral
Veteran
Yes I often wondered how/if broadcasters actually really checked bitrates and always thought it was crazy people shooting on off-board recorder just to go up from 35mbps. If you're shooting straight to camera I can't see 35 to 50 really being all that discernible. Perhaps only under a "microscope".
I agree, but unfortunately, if most of your work is for broadcasters that demand you meet their specs, you don't have much choice!
Grug
Veteran
It's important to remember though, 4K (even at 4:2:0) has more colour information than 1080p at 4:2:2 - so it should possess the quality to pass broadcast specification anyway.
Richard Allen Crook
Well-known member
I've been following this looooong thread and am surprised nobody has mentioned dynamic range hopes for improvements. To me, it's alot about the dynamic range. It's the magic that makes film look filmic. Raw don't mean a thing if it ain't got that sting (DR). Fourkay shmorkay. Show me a 35mm sensor in a video cam body that can do Alexa DR and ill show you the magic. Why aren't you all concerned with DR? Wouldn't it be incredible to get Alexa DR or better? Of you get that...the resolution and Mbps seems so minute. At least that my opinion.
Totally agree, but maybe the reason people are not mentioning it much is because we're very happy with where S-Log is right now. Give us another stop of DR and refine S-Log for the better?.. I'll take that too!
starcentral
Veteran
I'm certainly not concerned with DR, 12.5 - 13 .5 stops is plenty and most DOP's have an established contrast ratio they like to work within... 4:1 is plenty and still leaves enough for protection at the top.
Last edited:
Richard Allen Crook
Well-known member
Makes sense. The F3 is already in the top 3 for DR, no reason to complain for sure. I really got excited with the BMCC but got turned off by the sensor and lack of vid cam options. I'm sure film DR is coming soon to most cams, but I want in now now now! (Stomping feet). Lol
Cory Braun
Well-known member
I've never run into a problem with the F3's dynamic range. If they can maintain it and improve other areas I'll be happy. If they improve the dynamic range even more, that's icing on the cake, but it's not anywhere near the top of my list.
- Status