The New F
- Thread starter nsoltz
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stefanhuberfilms
Veteran
and where do you've got these specs from?
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
That's from the REDUser forum.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...for-the-EPIC&p=1082445&viewfull=1#post1082445
stefanhuberfilms
Veteran
Thx frank, i just wonder if this all could be true?
The pricepoint seems a bit ridiculous if you compare it to a C300. Ok there is the external 4K recording option but on the whole, you'll get far cheaper with a C300 plus a Atomos recorder to achieve the high bitrates... makes 16.000 bucks vs. roughly 20.000 bucks... So the 120fps option would cost you 4000 bucks? hmmm...
If you believe something from reduser, then I have a bridge to sell you.
scocklin
Well-known member
From the Red Thread: "They are aiming for the C300/500/Scarlet market with this. "
I personally think they are aiming a little bit higher than the Scarlet with this new camera. Sony has always been ruthless when going after the competition.
John Andersson
Well-known member
Sony could update the F3 with new firmware that would make it even with the C300. Put 50mb/s 4:2:2 to the SxS cards. Didn't Sony hint of an upcoming fw release?
Viddovation
Veteran
Yes, there will be another firmware update for the Sony PMW-F3, but there is very good reason to beleive the Sony F3 simply doesn't have the hardware necessary to implement 50Mbps 4:2:2. This conversation has been had elsewhere in depth, but firmware updates can't enable a feature that the hardware doesn't support.
Does this bridge have 4:2:2 color sampling and 50Mbps and if so how much does it cost?
starcentral
Veteran
Viddovation
Veteran
I realize this sort of thinking won't fly with the RED crowd, but I think owning a camera that does excellent 1080p, including compressed flavors like 35Mbps and 50Mbps for fast turnaround, but is capable of 4k with recorder actually works out quite well for owner operators who still mostly work in 1080p. The way I see it, I can own the camera, and rent a 4k recorder when clients need it. By the time I have enough clients clamouring for 4k to buy a recorder, both unit and media prices will likely have dropped, and may face marketplace competition.
Future proof wouldn't be accurate, but forward thinking, that would be.
Future proof wouldn't be accurate, but forward thinking, that would be.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Well that would make sense if all clients 1080 or 4k didnt need deserve decent colour.. raw (at least for tricky shots)
Id much prefer raw 1080 onboard
and 4k/high speed offboard
S
Id much prefer raw 1080 onboard
and 4k/high speed offboard
S
Viddovation
Veteran
Morgan,
What clients need varies greatly. It's a business, not a hobby, and I'm in the business of delivering what my clients pay me for. I have a client who bills close to $10k a year, and he only wants compressed 720 30p quicktime files. I've tried to convince him to move to 1080p, but he's not interested.
Some of us on this board do more paid work for clients that need 4k and intensive color correction. I fully expect them to make gear ownership decisions that are the most profitable to their business model.
I'm merely pointing out that for many of us who do not yet have a 4k clientele, a camera that offers a stepping stone path in that direction may be very profitable indeed. Given that 1080p ProRes recorders now rent in the $100day/$300week range, I fully expect in the next year we'll see 4k recorders renting in the $250 to $400 a day range. And that cost is 100% billable to the client who's requesting it.
And the Samurai puts a 1080p ProRes recorder at the $1500 range for those who can benefit from better color correction options from 1080p footage.
DendriteStudios
Active member
If they indeed price the camera at 22-25k they are shooting themselves in the foot. A replacement for the f3 should cost the same as an f3. Technology progresses every year at an accelerating rate. Don't expect anything different. If they truly want to go after the c300 and scarlet market they need to beat those camera's prices. Plain and simple. Sony could take the whole market by the balls if they wanted to, seems like they don't.
Hopefully that is not the price.
Hopefully that is not the price.
Grug
Veteran
I'm pretty sure it's been stated multiple times that the new cameras won't be 'replacements' for the F3, but slot in above it in feature-set/price-range.
On the plus side, that puts it out of my price range for the time being, and I can relax knowing the money I put down on my F3 was no less well spent.
Viddovation
Veteran
In reading the hints given by tohse who seem to be in the know, it seems as though Sony is targeting the Alexa - which has currently taken a large share of TV episodic, not to mention feature film market share. The Alexa is a $70,000 range product, and that's for the ProRes option, not the external ArriRaw recorder. And it's primarily a 1080p camera.
If Sony delivers a product that is essentially an upgraded Alexa at half the price ($30k), there would absolutely be a market for that product.
I was one of the very first people to take delivery of an F3, and that was less than 2 years ago. I'm personally relieved that the F3 is not going to be retired - I'm hoping to get 3-4 years out of this camera before trading it in for about 60% of what I paid (that's the hope!).
People keep comparing this upcoming camera to BMC and Scarlet pricing, but neither of those cameras offer high resolution high speed solutions. This is a different class of camera, and it's not part of the 3k for $3k paradigm.
If Sony delivers a product that is essentially an upgraded Alexa at half the price ($30k), there would absolutely be a market for that product.
I was one of the very first people to take delivery of an F3, and that was less than 2 years ago. I'm personally relieved that the F3 is not going to be retired - I'm hoping to get 3-4 years out of this camera before trading it in for about 60% of what I paid (that's the hope!).
People keep comparing this upcoming camera to BMC and Scarlet pricing, but neither of those cameras offer high resolution high speed solutions. This is a different class of camera, and it's not part of the 3k for $3k paradigm.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
And that is exactly what I said. your 720 client deserves good colour, delivered by a raw workflow - OK maybe not that one but - IMO.. good colour/DR at lower resolutions is the thing and higher res/frame rates are great upgrade path..
Good colour and DR are important at 480-720-1080 whatever
S
stefanhuberfilms
Veteran
True, didn't think about that, good input!
Viddovation
Veteran
Morgan,
I'm starting to realize we just look at the world differently. I work in feature films and music videos now, but I come from a ENG news background, and quickturn around videography and corporate work. Color grading takes time and skill, which means paying someone, and a longer post pipeline. For many clients I do work for neither of those are desirable, nor is the cost of storing higher fidelity video. For video production houses that grind through a multitude of quick turn around shoots, storage costs are a very real thing, and storing ProRes costs about 4x as much XDCAM-EX or AVCHD.
Yes, these clients want the best picture possible, but they want me to do it in camera, because the budget doesn't permit dedicated color grading. As creatives, we like to think in terms of "best." Real world producers with tight budgets tend to make business decisions based on "good enough."
The fact is, we're blessed with a generation of cameras that have excellent picture profile options that allow a skilled operator to shoot amazing video to compressed formats, that's edit and broadcast ready.
What my clients "deserve" is video delivered in the way they need it to make their budget and deadline.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Yep - totally different backgrounds, Im from stills been doing raw for 10+ years, clothing clients that get a bunch of returns if the colour is not right - Im bringing that look into 'motion'
I think raw workflow is over hyped in its complexity - its effortless
- and potentially cheaper - but for sure cant hit a same night deadline
As for video to compressed formats without huge lighting rigs, or just lurking for magic hour (both client expensive) - Im far from convinced
I wonder what you want from your camera? And why do you actually want a new one?
S
I think raw workflow is over hyped in its complexity - its effortless
- and potentially cheaper - but for sure cant hit a same night deadlineAs for video to compressed formats without huge lighting rigs, or just lurking for magic hour (both client expensive) - Im far from convinced
I wonder what you want from your camera? And why do you actually want a new one?
S
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