The New F
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starcentral
Veteran
I heard its fixed non-removable lens camera like Scarlet was suppose to be...
Admit One
Active member
I'm betting they'll call it the "F6". 50Mb/s internal recording, perhaps even to standard media, and 3G SDI 444 or RAW output to an external recorder. No fixed lens (that would be DOA). And last but not least, FF sensor, with crop options for S35, maybe even smaller.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Nate Weaver
Veteran
Them's the breaks with external RAW recording. I'm talking about the RAW output. The SDI output will be 10 bit, cuz that's what SDI is.
A lot of this stuff has been taking shape with the C500 and it's interface to the AJA Quad recorder. RAW output is pretty much 12 bits or greater. F65 uses 16bit on an optical link to the SR-R4.
I don't think it's wild to guess that the external recorder is either going to be the SR-R4 or a slightly feature reduced version of it (SR-R2?). Or new firmware for SR-R1 that allows it to take a RAW stream somehow (it doesn't currently)
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LeavingTheCandy
Well-known member
Before they push out another camera, they should enable/complete the FS700. Where's the 4K?
Nate Weaver
Veteran
I just found a white paper by Fraunhofer talking about ways to send camera RAW streams over existing 3G SDI connections, and what resolutions and frame rates you can get away with while doing so.
It looks to me that it's entirely within the capabilities of the SR-R1 to record a RAW stream if it had a (admittedly very involved) firmware upgrade.
[edit:]
Same trick would work on the FS700.
I realize it's slightly foolish for me to be saying something should be possible without having an EE degree, but Google is telling me there's some smart minds already working on it.
It looks to me that it's entirely within the capabilities of the SR-R1 to record a RAW stream if it had a (admittedly very involved) firmware upgrade.
[edit:]
Same trick would work on the FS700.
I realize it's slightly foolish for me to be saying something should be possible without having an EE degree, but Google is telling me there's some smart minds already working on it.
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starcentral
Veteran
No matter what the F TheNewF is I certainly hope no one is fooled into thinking a complete 4k turnkey solution is going to be cheap and it should be obvious the new 4k recorder for the FS700 would mate nicely with TheNewF Sony cam:
• SR-R1 HD 10-bit recorder - $8,000 (extra for 12-bit and uncompressed only via option SRK-R311) - 1TB media card $5,699 yields 60 minutes @ 24p 4k
• SR-R4 4k 16-bit Double Bayer RAW Recorder - $16,000
• Gemini 4k 10-bit recorder - $6000-$8000?
• AJA 4k 10-bit recorder - $4000
If you really after "RAW" I'm not certain the FS700, TheNewF, or C500 is for you if money (or footprint) is of any concern to you. Consider the base price of other 4k cameras with internal recording options already built-in:
• Canon EOS-1D C 4k 8-bit 422 - $15,000
• RED Scarlet 4k 16-bit RAW - $9,700 to $15,000 (once you get a few bits for it)
• SR-R1 HD 10-bit recorder - $8,000 (extra for 12-bit and uncompressed only via option SRK-R311) - 1TB media card $5,699 yields 60 minutes @ 24p 4k
• SR-R4 4k 16-bit Double Bayer RAW Recorder - $16,000
• Gemini 4k 10-bit recorder - $6000-$8000?
• AJA 4k 10-bit recorder - $4000
If you really after "RAW" I'm not certain the FS700, TheNewF, or C500 is for you if money (or footprint) is of any concern to you. Consider the base price of other 4k cameras with internal recording options already built-in:
• Canon EOS-1D C 4k 8-bit 422 - $15,000
• RED Scarlet 4k 16-bit RAW - $9,700 to $15,000 (once you get a few bits for it)
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Nate Weaver
Veteran
That's right. Not cheap.
BTW, having come to F3 from Red, even $15K is nowhere what it really costs, even for Scartlet. Just what was in my Red One BODY case came to $38K.
I see the new F being $15K for body, $8K for 4K recorder that integrates very nicely (F65 style). Then add SR Master media.
I still think this is acceptable, and very competitive. I think it's the C500 that really blew their pricing.
BTW, having come to F3 from Red, even $15K is nowhere what it really costs, even for Scartlet. Just what was in my Red One BODY case came to $38K.
I see the new F being $15K for body, $8K for 4K recorder that integrates very nicely (F65 style). Then add SR Master media.
I still think this is acceptable, and very competitive. I think it's the C500 that really blew their pricing.
starcentral
Veteran
Well if you got deal last week for $7100 then $15k would have actually bought a lot.. :happy: I'm also not including power or media requirements, as even the F3 made you buy your own charger and batteries.. etc...
My guess is a 4k F3 presumabley with internal HD 50mbps 422 is going to be at least $4000-$5000 over the base price of an F3. That puts it at $20k MSRP or $18k street price for the camera alone (maybe give or take $1000) and you will still need to buy the future released firmware upgrade to give you 4k. Who knows what the bit-rate will be or if different bit-rates options will be available and priced accordingly? ie 10-bit via SDI, 12-bit/16-bit via optical link?
Then, Sony will launch a new 4k recorder to appeal to the new lower-end market given the SR series recorders are out of reach for many. They will offer a recorder that uses their very own SRMASTER codec and/or possibly even the DPX format which they are supporting on their other recorders.
One week guys, one week!
My guess is a 4k F3 presumabley with internal HD 50mbps 422 is going to be at least $4000-$5000 over the base price of an F3. That puts it at $20k MSRP or $18k street price for the camera alone (maybe give or take $1000) and you will still need to buy the future released firmware upgrade to give you 4k. Who knows what the bit-rate will be or if different bit-rates options will be available and priced accordingly? ie 10-bit via SDI, 12-bit/16-bit via optical link?
Then, Sony will launch a new 4k recorder to appeal to the new lower-end market given the SR series recorders are out of reach for many. They will offer a recorder that uses their very own SRMASTER codec and/or possibly even the DPX format which they are supporting on their other recorders.
One week guys, one week!
ectobuilder
Veteran
Is this for real? Credible? The sensor says "EX-RUMOR"
Are SxS cards fast enough for 10-bit 422 @ 4K? Or will they have 4 x SxS slots working simultaneously?
Are SxS cards fast enough for 10-bit 422 @ 4K? Or will they have 4 x SxS slots working simultaneously?
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krost-audiovisual
Well-known member
Hi Again,
sorry for my post on a fixed lens was meant more humorous as some of you took it ;-)
Well, with only a week to go i thought: what camera would make me sell my F3?
I think Sony will surprise us price wise. why? because i simply can't believe that RED decides to sell of used Scarlets for 30% less if they were only used for 3 seconds... that's not a business decision i would suspect from them. -10% ok, but mins 30%? to me that's more than strange....
RED is losing grounds in the lower end spectrum of cameras (pricewise)
Rental houses have the c300 flying from their shelves, while Epics and Scarlets seem to start collecting a little Dust.
Now, what'S out there now?
Canon has C100, C300, C500. that's it basically. low, mid, hi price range
Sony has Fs100, Fs700, F3, F65 plus used F35's selling for cheap(great opportunities there).
I simply don't think that Sony will go for 25.000,. Dollar range.
Yes, it would fit their portfolio, but i think that very few F3 owners would upgrade, and very few new buyers would come.
there are simply too many good alternatives out there (scarlet, C100, Panasonic will surely sook smoething up too sometime.., C300, Used F3...)
What would i Buy? a modular camera...
a small 1080p F-mount Body with max Framerate of 120 continuos, 240 from buffer, ND, Sdi/Hdmi, Viewfinder from a99, xlr audio in, EX Batteries, SLog, sxs for 12.000.-
a pro I/O module with another 2 XLR (4 audio tracks), dual sdi out, hdmi out, sync, V-mount, Wifi etc etc for 4.000.-
a monitor/recorder module doing 1080p60 on ssd with touchscreeen EX Monitor built in for 2.500.-
a software upgrade path for 4k at 3.500.- (free after 2 years ;-)
a sotware upgrade for recorder allowing 1080p120 in prores, and 4k at 30fps max at 2.000.- (free after 2 years.-)
yes, that's a total of 24.000.-, but i would buy into this starting with the body...
and yes, that's the same path RED chose, but at a greater value for the money i think...
it's more of a psychological thing for me.12.000-16.000.- is still ok for a camera that i own myself.
but 25.000.- for a camera that lasts 1.5 years 'til it's replaced doesn't make sense for my business. i'd rather rent it.
so.....please..... ;-)
btw. i happen to fly and shoot in london on the 29th. Dear Sony, can't i get a sneaky peaky then? please!!!! i won't tell!
sorry for my post on a fixed lens was meant more humorous as some of you took it ;-)
Well, with only a week to go i thought: what camera would make me sell my F3?
I think Sony will surprise us price wise. why? because i simply can't believe that RED decides to sell of used Scarlets for 30% less if they were only used for 3 seconds... that's not a business decision i would suspect from them. -10% ok, but mins 30%? to me that's more than strange....
RED is losing grounds in the lower end spectrum of cameras (pricewise)
Rental houses have the c300 flying from their shelves, while Epics and Scarlets seem to start collecting a little Dust.
Now, what'S out there now?
Canon has C100, C300, C500. that's it basically. low, mid, hi price range
Sony has Fs100, Fs700, F3, F65 plus used F35's selling for cheap(great opportunities there).
I simply don't think that Sony will go for 25.000,. Dollar range.
Yes, it would fit their portfolio, but i think that very few F3 owners would upgrade, and very few new buyers would come.
there are simply too many good alternatives out there (scarlet, C100, Panasonic will surely sook smoething up too sometime.., C300, Used F3...)
What would i Buy? a modular camera...
a small 1080p F-mount Body with max Framerate of 120 continuos, 240 from buffer, ND, Sdi/Hdmi, Viewfinder from a99, xlr audio in, EX Batteries, SLog, sxs for 12.000.-
a pro I/O module with another 2 XLR (4 audio tracks), dual sdi out, hdmi out, sync, V-mount, Wifi etc etc for 4.000.-
a monitor/recorder module doing 1080p60 on ssd with touchscreeen EX Monitor built in for 2.500.-
a software upgrade path for 4k at 3.500.- (free after 2 years ;-)
a sotware upgrade for recorder allowing 1080p120 in prores, and 4k at 30fps max at 2.000.- (free after 2 years.-)
yes, that's a total of 24.000.-, but i would buy into this starting with the body...
and yes, that's the same path RED chose, but at a greater value for the money i think...
it's more of a psychological thing for me.12.000-16.000.- is still ok for a camera that i own myself.
but 25.000.- for a camera that lasts 1.5 years 'til it's replaced doesn't make sense for my business. i'd rather rent it.
so.....please..... ;-)
btw. i happen to fly and shoot in london on the 29th. Dear Sony, can't i get a sneaky peaky then? please!!!! i won't tell!
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
$3k:https://vimeo.com/52122205
I would pay another $2k to get an S35 chip
$1k for XLR
$3k for a compressed raw engine
$3k to double the frame rate?
$12k or bust?
S
I would pay another $2k to get an S35 chip
$1k for XLR
$3k for a compressed raw engine
$3k to double the frame rate?
$12k or bust?
S
stefanhuberfilms
Veteran
I'll just wait and see whats going on on tuesday - and no its not real, we were just fooling around a bit 
- its a cut off Photoshop F3
awesome how many people would believe your picture is the real new F starcentral!
- its a cut off Photoshop F3awesome how many people would believe your picture is the real new F starcentral!
Cory Braun
Well-known member
From REDUser (#28):
FWIW, Sony's new XXXX XX XXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXX XXXX XXX XXXX requires about the same amount of CPU power to decode its footage as does 4KHD 12bit R3D RAW from the RED One. Sony Vegas software handles it just fine. And handles those R3D files just as well.
Had to edit the above. Probably not save to say yet.
LeavingTheCandy
Well-known member
Morgan's idea is BRILLIANT! Ala carte camera ordering...pick and choose the things you want. :love4:
I'll add $$ for ergonomics that actually work for humans and $$$ for internal recording.
I'll add $$ for ergonomics that actually work for humans and $$$ for internal recording.
John Andersson
Well-known member
Just like when the C300 was in the works to be revealed three things will happen to me:
1. WOW I want one.
2. No thanks I'm good.
3. Okay, let me think for a while...
1. WOW I want one.
2. No thanks I'm good.
3. Okay, let me think for a while...
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Im just suggesting my perceived value of the Fxx using the BMC as the base line for the price of an 'imager'
Id pay 2or3X BMC money for a more practical package (ND, XLR,S35,availability), but no more.
S
evilthought
Well-known member
F5 on Oct 30th
Price around $20,000 (or more)
Compression options:
50 Mbps XDCam @ 422
80 Mbps XAVCHD @ 422
120 Mbps iframe compressed
220 Mbps "SR" @ 422 (only on new "SxS Raw+" Memory cards)
For 4K and/or RAW, must use -- expensive -- R5 recorder. No on board 4K or raw.
120 frames per second in HD (1080), codec: XAVCHD
There is also F55 4K camera coming (in future) that will be inbetween F65 and F5
Price around $20,000 (or more)
Compression options:
50 Mbps XDCam @ 422
80 Mbps XAVCHD @ 422
120 Mbps iframe compressed
220 Mbps "SR" @ 422 (only on new "SxS Raw+" Memory cards)
For 4K and/or RAW, must use -- expensive -- R5 recorder. No on board 4K or raw.
120 frames per second in HD (1080), codec: XAVCHD
There is also F55 4K camera coming (in future) that will be inbetween F65 and F5
Duke M.
Veteran
Since we have 34 pages of dreaming here I'll throw in my dream.
The new firmware allows 4.2.2 and 50Mbps. Then if you pay another $3,000 they'll swap out the sensor for one that will do 4k and install firmware that will do high frame rates.
Yes, its a dream, but since I'm not likely to buy another camera soon the rest seems dream like too.
The new firmware allows 4.2.2 and 50Mbps. Then if you pay another $3,000 they'll swap out the sensor for one that will do 4k and install firmware that will do high frame rates.
Yes, its a dream, but since I'm not likely to buy another camera soon the rest seems dream like too.
evilthought
Well-known member
I wasn't dreaming. I posted the real specs just before your post
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