The New Cinema Camera

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James0b57 said:
Interesting camera, for sure. So many features and options, and the IQ i’ve seen from my friends is fantastic, regardless of price. Yet, it feels sort of home made when i pick it up. Like someone built their own PC on a budget, but got the best GFX card. I really like the Pockets though. Had a loaner, and kind of missing it.
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Between you me and the wall, I too prefered the PCC 6K to the UMP G2. Fully rigged out with V mount and Zacuto VCT and all of the other stuff, the UMP G2 felt like it was almost approaching Amira size and weight.
Not fun to run around shooting shoulder mounted, OMB all day in the sand and heat. PCC 6K with a cage, handles, battery grip and monitor is actually pretty easy to deal with as far as weight and size and the images
with the BM RAW are really great and the Prores too.

Other than lack of usable AF and the lousy screen, I like almost everything about the PCC 6K. If I was starting from scratch and weren't shooting for clients who care
about which camera you use, I'd buy a PCC 6K, some good cine primes, cage, monitor, battery grip and for less than a C200, you'd have a pretty sweet little camera package.
 
puredrifting said:
Between you me and the wall, I too prefered the PCC 6K to the UMP G2. Fully rigged out with V mount and Zacuto VCT and all of the other stuff, the UMP G2 felt like it was almost approaching Amira size and weight.
Not fun to run around shooting shoulder mounted, OMB all day in the sand and heat. PCC 6K with a cage, handles, battery grip and monitor is actually pretty easy to deal with as far as weight and size and the images
with the BM RAW are really great and the Prores too.

Other than lack of usable AF and the lousy screen, I like almost everything about the PCC 6K. If I was starting from scratch and weren't shooting for clients who care
about which camera you use, I'd buy a PCC 6K, some good cine primes, cage, monitor, battery grip and for less than a C200, you'd have a pretty sweet little camera package.
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Yeah, the screen is perhaps the oddest part of that design. I’m not sure what kind of humans prefer shooting with their arms straight out in front of their face. Not even holding anything fatigue sets in fast for most people. Considering an external evf or lcd is almost a requirement with the BM pockets, the large ugly screen on the back just seems like a very odd design choice. Kind if like giving up to meet some specs to dollar ratio.

Still, i already own the aks, so, the BM pockets aren’t asking a lot from me that i don’t already have. So they fit in nicely. I’d consider a smallHD focus to partner with the pockets. When not shooting on a schedule, and just having time to pick out moments, a 4k and 6k’s are nice home/personal/hobby use, with few if the image quality drawbacks of other cheap options.
 
(I like the p4k screen, it's perfect for shooting on my Moza Aircross2 gimbal, which can be mounted with motor on the left)
 
Samuel H said:
(I like the p4k screen, it's perfect for shooting on my Moza Aircross2 gimbal, which can be mounted with motor on the left)
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I forget that smaller gimbals put the camera right where i said people never shoot: two feet out from their face. Still, i find that an external minitor on a gimbal is my preference, but i can totally see your point. And i will say, screen is better than no screen.
 
It depends a lot on how you shoot. Most of my projects are "talent plus me". Sometimes there's one or two extra people but they're usually just helping the talent with wardrobe, makeup, props, etc. If I have to choose between an external monitor or a second or third LED fresnel, I'll pick the light. The three times I had an actual crew, we got a shogun to work as recording backup and director's monitor.
 
Sam, what is the difference between the BM pocket screen and a flippy swing or tilt screen? Why do you prefer the Blck magic locked in screen?
 
It is BIG. It also has false color and peaking. It would be nice if it could tilt or swivel, though. Still waiting for that Tilta DIY tilt-screen kit...
 
It would be nice if it was high nit or had a nigh nit option you could turn on and off. I used the BMD PCC6K in the sun and it was utterly useless, couldn't even see a dim image with the brightness turned all the way up.
The Tilta tilting screen option with a hood could possibly be useful outside, if and when it ships? The lack of AF too is difficult, I have come to rely on AF about 60% of the time, it's just too hard to
judge 4K focus on small screens. What looks in focus when you roll under and past the sharpness is tough to discern on such a small screen. I can do it well with the Zacuto EVF for the C200 now but the
X-T3 screen, it can still be hard to judge focus.
 
puredrifting said:
It would be nice if it was high nit or had a nigh nit option you could turn on and off. I used the BMD PCC6K in the sun and it was utterly useless, couldn't even see a dim image with the brightness turned all the way up.
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That's the thing that bugs me about the big built-in screen. It burns a lot of power and it isn't that useful. The Blackmagic team is so clever with their products. But I sometimes wonder what they are thinking. But then, they can't make them fast enough, so ...
 
Paul F said:
That's the thing that bugs me about the big built-in screen. It burns a lot of power and it isn't that useful. The Blackmagic team is so clever with their products. But I sometimes wonder what they are thinking. But then, they can't make them fast enough, so ...
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BM has committed to a touch screen menu system. Even on the Ursa pro, you can’t do certain things without the touch screen.

For light users, difficult to beat the Black magic’s. I’ll have to test them against the Gemini again. In particular the G2 pro. Pocket 4K at a first glance makes the heart sink. After buying a Red and seeing how close they come, it feels like a waste. At first. Then after using for work, they are worlds apart, but for single users or hobbyists, they really aren’t missing out on a whole lot.
 
puredrifting said:
The PCC6K screen, indoors, isn't bad quality at all. it's surprisingly good. But it's fixed angle is lame.
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I just hate screens that put me in bad posture. And the idea of a “pocket” for me means i am not carrying around a stabilizer. So, “not bad” is not exactly good. I understand the need for them to have a big screen to make the menus easier to navigate, and a swivel screen is added cost or reliability issues. However, i dislike seeing my composition from odd angles, and i dislike craning my neck or getting into weird spine angles to see the thing that was supposedly designed for humans to use. And yeah, i agree the fixed angle is really the main issue with the screen. I’d like a slightly smaller one with a swivel, as it would translate into a extra minute or two of run time, and give better viewing angles, but then the touch screen would be more difficult for large hands, and the price would invariably increase on a product that is already “expensive” for many hobbyists.
 
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Got to shoot with the C500ii a fee weekends ago. Was a short, and a good personal story to use such a camera on.

Most of the footage i’d seen was very clean and pretty, but was leaning towards a more weathered look to match the characters emotions. We had a pink warmth to the set design to counter the cold and rough. Story takes place in a cold rural mountain town, and the quality of light had to feel kind of cold, yet there had to be an underlying tenderness to the characters.

49657002093_a17a2bed2f_h.jpg


I took some of the discussions we had about the camera, and did a quick test. JCS pointed out some aspects of the image that held true. And that allowed me to get the look mostly in camera. Underexposing also meant i could hold colour in the flames better, and the delicate details in the windows and curtains. The noise was more filmic (though these frames have some heavy grain added. The 6K sensor noise is very very fine) The third frame was shot at iso5000, and the other two were iso1600. Full frame really makes familiar lenses feel sharper, without reducing the rolloff and microcontrast.

This wasn’t a story where i was looking for sharpness or detail, so the 6K was way more than i needed. The downsample to 1080 is very very good, and i feel i’ll have to blur details in the 4K, so i can add some subtle grain. The stills i posted are just mock up looks.
 
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And around the same time as that shoot, i shot a scene with the Red Gemini.
49660102213_e877b8d4c9_h.jpg

Was going a different look. Cleaner for sure.
 
In terms of dynamic range the XT3 has less than the Pocket 6k and even less than the Pocket 4k.

At least in terms of recoverable highlights and shadow detail, at least usable shadow detail.

Arri still remains king though a C300 MK3 or C500 MK2 are pretty compelling usability wise especially when price wise you'd compare them to an Amira which is almost 3x heavier without being rigged up.
 
sgttom said:
In terms of dynamic range the XT3 has less than the Pocket 6k and even less than the Pocket 4k.

At least in terms of recoverable highlights and shadow detail, at least usable shadow detail.

Arri still remains king though a C300 MK3 or C500 MK2 are pretty compelling usability wise especially when price wise you'd compare them to an Amira which is almost 3x heavier without being rigged up.
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Thanks for that info. I’ll check with Sam and we’ll make some updates.

I’ve been thinking about updating the camera list as well, now that some cameras have been around, and i have had time to try out a few different ones.
 
puredrifting said:
Between you me and the wall, I too prefered the PCC 6K to the UMP G2. Fully rigged out with V mount and Zacuto VCT and all of the other stuff, the UMP G2 felt like it was almost approaching Amira size and weight.
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Funny thing about Amira....They're not that light once you rig them for (drama) use. (MDR's CInetapes, monitors etc. And no option for internal Wireless if you use a WCU4)

I usually can rig a UMP much lighter.

Here's an Ursa with UMC, focus motors, EVF, TWO VLOCK batteries, Teradek and TC clock on a custom base plate with a handle.
Very low center of gravity, very compact and portable and tight on the shoulder.

https://flic.kr/p/MWj23q
https://flic.kr/p/UwjZgW

And the viewfinder-less version
https://flic.kr/p/MVXwyR

I've used both the P6K and UMP in drama situations where image is the most important concern. And I'd go for the G2 every time.

The G2 is in an entirely different league.

Dual Gain sensor has far more DR and image fidelity.

WAY FASTER integration time (RS) which is very important for hand held in my view. (similar to Alexa)

Much higher maximum frame rate...

Internal NDs...

Interchangeable mounts... (and factory PL)

Better audio control (if that's your thing)

I've shot hand held all day with a UMP and I thought it was a treat. I did make (or have made) a few custom pieces thought that made it better with some accessories.

But no question, other than maybe the lower ISO, the G2 is a better camera by almost every metric.

JB
 
ahalpert said:
JB makes a pretty compelling case for UMP G2/Pocket 4 or 6K as A cam/B cam
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I think you have to work that out for yourself. You need time hands on with it to know what works or doesn’t.

The whole specs and looking at other people’s work...

You never know till you try it in your own circumstances. Rent some cameras and try them out !

JB
 
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