C200: The new Canon C200 with 4K

This looks like a good old fashioned shootout is going to happen between the C200 and the upcoming Panasonic. Both look to be nice cameras. Though it is shocking to me how Canon is still offering 16bit audio on an $8,000 camera in 2017.
 
I honestly don't understand the decision to not include 10-bit 4:2:2 in any modern video camera. This should be the basic level as processors and codecs are up to speed nowadays. So why Canon? Why are you still holding back?
 
I kind of think this might be the perfect camera for me. Raw on CFast for indie narrative feature filmmaking; MP4 on SD for clients that want fast turnaround small files with no grading. And touchscreen AF that works like something out of a Sci-Fi movie.

The price is about $1000 more than I hoped for, but it's Canon, so I expected it.

Starting to save my pennies now.
 
Osslund said:
I honestly don't understand the decision to not include 10-bit 4:2:2 in any modern video camera. This should be the basic level as processors and codecs are up to speed nowadays. So why Canon? Why are you still holding back?
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The C300 really needs a re-think. The C300 should be the flagship camera, while the C700 (with it's 6 SDI outs, and other niceties) should be the luxury camera that big production use Alexa style. The current C300 is underpowered, and needs more codec options. It should really be more of a match for the Varicam LT. The least they could do (add the new processors) isn't even that much of a hassle, then it'll have internal RAW as well.
 
No response from Canon when i asked about using the new touch LCD with the C300MKII.

klk said:
Terry, any word if the touch LCD may be an option on the C300 Mk2? (after firmware update)
I like the C200 more WITHOUT the EVF. Better ergo for me.
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NMSK said:
Makes me wonder why the 4K MP4 codecs couldn't have made their way into the 1DXii/5DIV and made them bigger hits with their market.
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The two latter ones don't have the Digic DV processors, only the photo centric Digic ones. And it seems that only the 2 x Digic DV's of the C200 are capable of transcoding the Raw signal coming from the sensor in realtime into MP4.
 
Osslund said:
I honestly don't understand the decision to not include 10-bit 4:2:2 in any modern video camera. This should be the basic level as processors and codecs are up to speed nowadays. So why Canon? Why are you still holding back?
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You have to give it to them though...brilliant strategy and specs.

They carefully put in the exact specs that they knew people would love, but left out critical ones/features that many still need for their work (based on the feedback here) and have no choice but to consider a C300 Mark II if they would like to use a Canon camera.
 
NorBro said:
You have to give it to them though...brilliant strategy and specs.
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It's a strategy, though I wouldn't call it brilliant. Would have bought the C200 in a second (hell, I may have purchased 2 or 3 for multi-cam work) were it not for this issue. It will be a tough decision, but this strategic omission is making me consider other cameras during the next few months. Same thing happened with the C300 II. Was dissapointed with some of its features/design, but would have bought it in a second if it had 60p. Canon thinks they're strategically placing themselves and preventing cannibalization, but I find it rather enraging and I'm not playing their "just upgrade to the next model" game. Their engineering is brilliant; their self-imposed limited feature sets are the problem.
 
Osslund said:
I honestly don't understand the decision to not include 10-bit 4:2:2 in any modern video camera. This should be the basic level as processors and codecs are up to speed nowadays. So why Canon? Why are you still holding back?
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Simple, then you would make the C300 MKII obsolete. Its already obsolete after this anyway, but that would be the nail in the coffin.
 
Run&Gun said:
I actually noticed last night when I saw the pics and it really caught my eye. The only camera I have that can do that is my F55. I've never taken advantage of/used it myself, but one of my audio guys did a shoot with my SD664 and an F5 and sent multiple split tracks(4?)to an F5 via AES/EBU.
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I used to use AES/EBU back in the Dbeta days, it's cool to shoot with literally zero noise and distortion into a camera. Kind of bypasses the crap audio circuits almost all cameras have, makes me happy even though digital audio is far from a standardized workflow for video. Soemday we'll get there.
 
They're not following Steve's rule: you have to cannibalize your own stuff. Putting in the good pro stuff would cannibalize the C300, but they could probably make up the margin in increased volume.
 
They could update the C300 to MKIII by just adding the Dual Digic DV 6 processors, touchscreen focus, move audio to the body, RAW Light internal in 10-bit, keep the TC and genlock I/Os and price it at $11,000.00, then their product line would make more sense.
 
puredrifting said:
They could update the C300 to MKIII by just adding the Dual Digic DV 6 processors, touchscreen focus, move audio to the body, RAW Light internal in 10-bit, keep the TC and genlock I/Os and price it at $11,000.00, then their product line would make more sense.
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The C200 confirms to me that the C300 MKIII will be the last* camera body I ever buy.

A C300 MKIII with x2 Digic DV 6s and some upgrades you mention ported from the C200 (touchscreen!) will be more than enough camera to see me through the end of my "career" (and no, I'm never going 8K). I also assume the global shutter and ProRes recording will have trickled down from the C700 by then (at least as options).

So I'm saving my pennies for a couple of years :-)

* Note the word "last" does not mean what I think it means.

Matt
 
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What I think I'm seeing is that a lot of the people who are really against the RAW seem to have never shot RAW.

I might be totally wrong as I don't know any of you, but I'm just not reading the same vibe from BM or RED guys. I mentioned in another post how the RAW Cinema Light workflow could end up being super easy...just like importing anything else.

Is it mostly the price of storage for many of you? If a 512GB CFast card was $100, how many would still not support it?

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This is not supposed to be like a CinemaDNG workflow where you can't (for example) use FCP X. This is supposed to be a native workflow for most major NLEs.

Open software --> Import clips --> See clips in browser and drop in the timeline to start editing. [I imagine there will be a RAW tab somewhere in each NLE to adjust the RAW data.]

At the end of the day, you may have 10 cards of footage, but it's in the absolute highest-quality from the sensor. If storage is really a problem, then you can make your metadata adjustments and export the footage to your ProRes (etc) and essentially have the same kind of files that you're asking for in that middle ground.

I know it's still not the same, but this isn't a deal-breaker for me, personally.

No 4K/60p in a C300 Mark II was an instant deal-breaker for me and I never looked at the camera again.
 
NorBro said:
If a 512GB CFast card was $100, how many would still not support it?
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The problem is that will never happen over the lifespan of this camera, and anything less than 512GB you'll be swapping cards all the time.

NorBro said:
No 4K/60p in a C300 Mark II was an instant deal-breaker for me and I never looked at the camera again
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Yes, hence wait for the C300 MKIII. It might even beat 60P (not likely).
 
I agree, but they will continue to drop...I know it's not at the rate that everyone's expecting, but I tell the same old story every week how I bought a 128GB CFast card in late 2014 for $1200 and it's now $350.

You'll see them go down. And if you don't, you can always rent.

For those who have jobs/gigs that require 10-12 hours of shooting everyday for many days straight, I don't have a solution...but hopefully you're making a lot of money to buy cards, haha.

But for those who have a big gig that lasts one or maybe two days, here's a rental example from LR:

10x 512GB Lexar cards for a total of 5120GB...1 day rental = $650

I don't think that's too bad and that is a lot of storage many won't use up in one day.

So if we cut that down to 5 cards, it's $335 for the day. Reasonable? (Keep in mind these are top-of-the-line cards...there are cheaper options.)

And of course the bare-bones solution of them all (which I did for 1 year straight with the URSA) is offload on-site.

I had two 128GB cards and I carried around a laptop and a bunch of SSDs from the BMCC and just offloaded footage all day. Certainly not always possible depending on the job, but sometimes it is.
 
Matt Turner said:
The C200 confirms to me that the C300 MKIII will be the last* camera body I ever buy.

A C300 MKIII with x2 Digic DV 6s and some upgrades you mention ported from the C200 (touchscreen!) will be more than enough camera to see me through the end of my "career" (and no, I'm never going 8K). I also assume the global shutter and ProRes recording will have trickled down from the C700 by then (at least as options).

So I'm saving my pennies for a couple of years :-)

* Note the word "last" does not mean what I think it means.

Matt
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Matt, it would be more convincing if you typed the word "last" with quotation marks ;-) Like KISS' "last" farewell tour.
 
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