We certainly hope so. The fear is that the GH3 seems to be showing it on subject matter where the GH2 would have had none.
GH3 The Moire Debate
- Thread starter larrys
- Start date
We certainly hope so. The fear is that the GH3 seems to be showing it on subject matter where the GH2 would have had none.
Huh?
When you say format i take it you meen frame rate,we are pal and 24P is the worst,i like the HBR 25P thats in a wrapper but it still has M & A,50i is a bit better but its only 17mbps,720P is soft for me,obviously the film mode makes no difference,and i usualy keep the shutter to 50 or 60fps
All my lenses are panasonic except for an oly 12-50,the 14-140 has a good stabilizer but does not stop it except with a tripod.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjSegw5RAgg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i-gz6aQjfw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz2VvxCuPD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xkQuuX51AA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir8q9fbkktw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImBtfxsQPi0
If you can bear watching them these are some films without a tripod.Any moire would look far worse on a good HD tv
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The GH3 specifically states it has uses an Electronic Shutter, for when it does its 20fps photos.
"Even higher-speed burst shooting is possible with the DMC-GH3 when the electronic shutter is used." -- http://www.panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh3/still_response.html
Second last thing on the page, and "Electronic Shutter" is a Global shutter system.
I can't say it is true about Panasonic, but most 3rd party image sensor companies design their image sensors to be both rolling and global, and you can switch between them. I don't see any reason why Panasonic wouldn't do the same, and this is exactly what they could be talking about.
Ian-T
Veteran
I think that's just a play on words. It's "global" in the sense of its use (meaning "overall" with both pictures and video) but it's not an actual global shutter. That's something different entirely.
I could be wrong...but if it were really a global shutter then we would see no skew or RS artifacts at all.
I could be wrong...but if it were really a global shutter then we would see no skew or RS artifacts at all.
RieniO
Well-known member
To indicate how much I like the GH cams, I would still be shooting with the GH1 today if the GH2 didn't exist. It's only due to the GH2 that we know how bad the GH1 was. But the GH1 is still better than all the video consumer cams I used in the past 20 years.
So I'm looking forward to the GH3. I haven't pre-ordered it but will buy it when it can be delivered from stock.
So I'm looking forward to the GH3. I haven't pre-ordered it but will buy it when it can be delivered from stock.
RieniO
Well-known member
I watched a few and didn't see any moire, in fact I find the image quality suberb. I find the camera shake more annoying. If you're not going to run around with your camera but shoot everything from the same spot, just use a tripod, it will make your videos look much better.
Yeah, we will have to wait until someone can test the 20fps photo mode and pan quickly while taking photos. Maybe the guys at The Camera Store still have their test camera.
There is nothing on that page that says it is a global electronic shutter. The only instance of "Global" I found on that page was the "Global Links" tag. It is referring to countries around the world.
Well you see a little shake filming amongst crowds,moire is there if your sights ok,on an hd tv it shows easier,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImBtfxsQPi0 a test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjSegw5RAgg crowds of people around me ,no chance of a tripod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-TzeNmGCfA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPrbbGOEVGQ
i use a trpod when possible
I wonder if maybe you're confusing aliasing with interlacing artifacts here. Because in general I see very, very little aliasing or moire in 24p mode, even on subject matter that would drive the 5D crazy with artifacts.
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Not always. With CCD yes, but with CMOS, is rarely is. "Electronic shutter" simply means there is no mechanical shutter as was used in film cameras. Most (all?) video cameras use an electronic shutter. Always have. But there's no inherent link between electronic and global (as we found out going from the superior CCD to inferior CMOS chips).
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not sure as i said i never use 24P its awfull for Pal,i use HBR 25P,but frame rate does not alter the amount of M & A i get.
Am i correct one is where lines ralings etc are a flashing mass and the other where building bricks etc are a fuzzy mass.
I for one am glad that we don't have those super bright lightsaber like lights coming from every headlight in our shots now. The issues that a CCD presents in video are far worse than dealing with minimal rolling shutter skew.
Sure Global Shutter would be great. However, a really fast rolling shutter is virtually the same thing. I just hope you can use higher than ISO 1600 with it in the GH3. That is a limitation I don't understand.
If those uploads were shot progressive, then I'd say you did something wrong in post. It looks interlaced (or like it was interlaced at some point).
Not quite. Aliasing is when a line that should be smooth has jagged edges. You see it more on curved lines, like the droop in a telephone wire, or the seem of a car door. It's easy to mistake interlacing artifacts for actual aliasing.
Moire is a sort of rainbow-like series of color changes in very fine details, like the front grill of a computer speaker, or the pattern of a houndstooth jacket.
If you want to get rid of vertical smearing, fine. But don't do it by replacing it with the far more objectionable skew and flash banding.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Most definitely. Lots of folks seem to think that single-field video is actually aliasing. I think we had a bit of "alias panic" when the FS100 was first released, which turned out to have been that the shooter had released single-field video instead of full res.
Moire isn't necessarily colored. A moire pattern can be black & white too; the GH2 shows b&w moire patterns. The patterns are the same whether they're colored or not. The DSLRs and some of the video cameras make the moire patterns even worse by making colored moire, which makes it a lot more visible and distracting.
Pretty much like i thought [Moire is a sort of rainbow-like series of color changes in very fine details, like the front grill of a computer speaker]i get black and white not than coloured mostly.
Nothing to do with editing Jim Simon my edited footage is identical to playing the origional clips with the camera or a card reader in my BD player,at least i get good tripod footage.