GH3 The Moire Debate

[larrys]

I have owned the GH2 since it was first released and I remember that this conversation about moire is an exact repeat of the conversation people were having about moire and the GH2 before the camera was released and after it was widely available. Some owners found it had a lot of moire, certainly more moire than on the DSLRs and they showed their video proof on Vimeo, Youtube, etc. Other owners found that the GH2 had little or no moire, certainly less then on the DSLRs and they showed their proof online. Both camps were very confident that they were right. After I got the GH2, moire was never really an issue for me at all, but then, I never really hunted to find it. And in feedback on my videos, no one ever mentioned it.

In going back and looking into this, I have seen some GH2 videos online with a lot of moire, yet, in my own shooting it never really occurred. I am not a professional videographer and I never tried to produce moire as a test, but here is an early test video I did with the GH2 that has the opportunity to show moire and there is none to be found (look at the fences at around 1:30) (When my GH3 arrives, I plan to go back to this same waterfront and shoot the same test video.)

http://vimeo.com/18345432

So, here we are again with the GH3. I have seen some videos where you can see a little moire, and even more, where you can not see any moire even when the person shooting was trying to produce moire specifically.

Here's one example of a video where the filmmaker tried to produce moire and there is none:

http://vimeo.com/52019304

Here's an example of a video where the filmmaker did not try to produce any moire yet - if you look for it purposely - you can see some on the zipper of the jacket:

http://vimeo.com/53272456

So, after all of the talk about it and all of the videos now available, (and I am sure the debate will continue) personally, the moire issue in the GH3 is a total non-issue for me. Under certain shooting conditions, I may get a little moire and in most other conditions there will be none. Isn't it really as simple as that?

 

[Hidef1080]

So, after all of the talk about it and all of the videos now available, (and I am sure the debate will continue) personally, the moire issue in the GH3 is a total non-issue for me. Under certain shooting conditions, I may get a little moire and in most other conditions there will be none...

I feel the same way.
In the end people know what they can work with and what they can't but when we stop looking for the "perfect" camera I think we can all find something image-wise and price-wise that we can live with.

I think the GH3 will be one of the better cameras.

 

[maranfilms]

I feel the same way.
In the end people know what they can work with and what they can't but when we stop looking for the "perfect" camera I think we can all find something image-wise and price-wise that we can live with.

I think the GH3 will be one of the better cameras.

IDK, It seems people always look for reasons to keep what they have, and shoot down new tech, even though it's miles ahead. I remember the same thing with the gh2.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

IDK, It seems people always look for reasons to keep what they have, and shoot down new tech, even though it's miles ahead. I remember the same thing with the gh2.

People are already shooting down the 35-100mm F2.8 lens and the GH3. I bet the 17mm F1.8 won’t get shot down if its price is right.

Honestly, I think all of the new equipment is miles ahead of what we had 2-4 years ago. Everyone still praises the 20mm F1.7 but its autofocus really isn’t that great and it isn’t as sharp as we had originally thought wide open.

Everyone will complain and write off the GH3 when it first comes out. However, after a few weeks and the initial round of testing everyone will start to realize the benefits of its new features(wireless, electronic shutter, improved ISO performance…etc).

Then people will claim that the GH3 will be good but only when it gets hacked. Some people will believe that and others will jump right in as soon as the reviews show its strengths and weaknesses.

Eventually everyone will gravitate towards the GH3 as a hack is developed. Then we will start the whole “Does the hack really do anything battle all over again”. It is an endless cycle that doesn’t seem to be waning anytime soon.

 

[Ian-T]

I have owned the GH2 since it was first released and I remember that this conversation about moire is an exact repeat of the conversation people were having about moire and the GH2 before the camera was released and after it was widely available. Some owners found it had a lot of moire, certainly more moire than on the DSLRs and they showed their video proof on Vimeo, Youtube, etc. Other owners found that the GH2 had little or no moire, certainly less then on the DSLRs and they showed their proof online. Both camps were very confident that they were right. After I got the GH2, moire was never really an issue for me at all, but then, I never really hunted to find it. And in feedback on my videos, no one ever mentioned it.

In going back and looking into this, I have seen some GH2 videos online with a lot of moire, yet, in my own shooting it never really occurred. I am not a professional videographer and I never tried to produce moire as a test, but here is an early test video I did with the GH2 that has the opportunity to show moire and there is none to be found (look at the fences at around 1:30) (When my GH3 arrives, I plan to go back to this same waterfront and shoot the same test video.)

http://vimeo.com/18345432

So, here we are again with the GH3. I have seen some videos where you can see a little moire, and even more, where you can not see any moire even when the person shooting was trying to produce moire specifically.

Here's one example of a video where the filmmaker tried to produce moire and there is none:

http://vimeo.com/52019304

Here's an example of a video where the filmmaker did not try to produce any moire yet - if you look for it purposely - you can see some on the zipper of the jacket:

http://vimeo.com/53272456

So, after all of the talk about it and all of the videos now available, (and I am sure the debate will continue) personally, the moire issue in the GH3 is a total non-issue for me. Under certain shooting conditions, I may get a little moire and in most other conditions there will be none. Isn't it really as simple as that?

Good post and so true. This is my experience also. I don't think I've ever noticed moire in any of my videos (atleast I don't recall) but then again, like you , I was not looking for it. I remember those early GH2 tests.

 

[TheDingo]

IDK, It seems people always look for reasons to keep what they have, and shoot down new tech, even though it's miles ahead

...For me it all depends on the GH3 producing an image that is as clean as the GH2 does, otherwise I will stick with what works. ( until I can afford something better, like the Canon C100 )

 

[TCSJordan]

Even shooting with a pre-production camera (v0.5), I found moire to be a non issue. I did shoot some very fine patterns with a sharp lens stopped down, and was able to produce a very small amount of moire, but this was after trying to find it for some time. The footage I actually shot had no distracting moire. If it's there, no one has noticed it.

 

[mcbob]

I hope nobody is laboring under the delusion that the GH2 is moire-free. Just reviewing some footage from earlier this week, shot on the GH2 + 35-100, and with the fine-checker-striped shirt the fellow is wearing, he's a regular Moire Povitch.

GH3 can't be all that terrible.

 

[atarijedi]

People are already shooting down the 35-100mm F2.8 lens and the GH3. I bet the 17mm F1.8 won’t get shot down if its price is right.

Honestly, I think all of the new equipment is miles ahead of what we had 2-4 years ago. Everyone still praises the 20mm F1.7 but its autofocus really isn’t that great and it isn’t as sharp as we had originally thought wide open.

Everyone will complain and write off the GH3 when it first comes out. However, after a few weeks and the initial round of testing everyone will start to realize the benefits of its new features(wireless, electronic shutter, improved ISO performance…etc).

Then people will claim that the GH3 will be good but only when it gets hacked. Some people will believe that and others will jump right in as soon as the reviews show its strengths and weaknesses.

Eventually everyone will gravitate towards the GH3 as a hack is developed. Then we will start the whole “Does the hack really do anything battle all over again”. It is an endless cycle that doesn’t seem to be waning anytime soon.

It only makes use of the electronic shutter (aka global shutter) in photo mode, not video mode.

 

[FrameFarmMedia]

I hope nobody is laboring under the delusion that the GH2 is moire-free. Just reviewing some footage from earlier this week, shot on the GH2 + 35-100, and with the fine-checker-striped shirt the fellow is wearing, he's a regular Moire Povitch.

GH3 can't be all that terrible.

Funny enough I was also editing some GH2 footage last night and could see some moire in a fine mesh shirt. I'm very much looking forward to the GH3 and can't wait for my pre-order to arrive here in Toronto (I'm being told early Dec now).

 

[larrys]

This has turned into a really useful and encouraging thread, thanks for all these great responses, bringing sanity to this whole overblown moire issue. Can't wait to start shooting with the GH3.

 

[TheDingo]

I hope nobody is laboring under the delusion that the GH2 is moire-free

...The GH2 is not moire free, but it's very low compared to any other DSLR camera. If the GH3 can't produce similar results then I'll pass on it.

Moire is about the only image defect that's next to impossible to fix in post, so it must be avoided like the plague.

 

[Kindredmachine]

I've noticed it drastically changes based on the lens/settings. Lumix lenses are virtually free of it while shooting a manual Ziess, there's tons. U just learn how to shoot with your cameras.

 

[MBPRODUCTS]

When I first started using my GH2 I was amazed at the video it produced. I stopped using my video camera and bought a second GH2 . When editing in Sony Vegas I sometimes would see some weird stuff going on , until I came across a post on this forum that said you should turn off forced resampling, after doing that I never had a problem again.
I also learned that by shooting stills in raw and adjusting them in Lightroom I could take really nice looking still pictures with this camera.
As soon as BH was taking preorders for the GH3 I ordered it. Can’t wait to get it.

 

[Bern Caughey]

As soon as BH was taking preorders for the GH3 I ordered it. Can’t wait to get it.

I received an email from B&H this morning that they're expecting the GH3 to ship in 7-14 days. Also another about the C100 with the same ship dates.

We'll see how accurate these predictions pan out.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

It only makes use of the electronic shutter (aka global shutter) in photo mode, not video mode.

The GH2 and the GH3 do not have global shutters at all. In fact both the GH2 and the GH3 have electronic rolling shutters for both stills and video. It is just that the Electronic Rolling shutter can be used with full resolution stills with the GH3.

That is a big deal for anyone who ever takes a telephoto picture with their camera.

 

[flinty]

Love my GH2 but but M & A is its worse thing for me no better than the soft picture of my previous 550D,its always there unless i film with a tripod,do these cameras vary,true even pro made tv can show it but i can only get exceptable results with a tripod.
One sure thing Moire is far easier to notice on HD tvs than pc monitors.

 

[Thomas Smet]

Love my GH2 but but M & A is its worse thing for me no better than the soft picture of my previous 550D,its always there unless i film with a tripod,do these cameras vary,true even pro made tv can show it but i can only get exceptable results with a tripod.
One sure thing Moire is far easier to notice on HD tvs than pc monitors.

huh?

What format are you shooting with? Myself and lots of people shoot handheld or on rigs and don't seem to have this problem. In fact I hardly ever see any. Are you shooting 60i?

 

[TheDingo]

GH2: ...but I can only get acceptable results with a tripod

Are you using an optical stabilized lens with the GH2 mounted on a hand held stabilizer ?

I've had no problems recording sharp images using a stabilized lens with the GH2 mounted to a stabilizer rig.

 

[maranfilms]

Love my GH2 but but M & A is its worse thing for me no better than the soft picture of my previous 550D,its always there unless i film with a tripod,do these cameras vary,true even pro made tv can show it but i can only get exceptable results with a tripod.
One sure thing Moire is far easier to notice on HD tvs than pc monitors.

I'm not sure I understand. I guess I can see how slight movements when filming certain types of patterns can exaggerate moire, but I never had much of an issue on my gh2. In fact, the times I have noticed moire, were when I used a lumix lens as opposed to fd glass. Maybe it was coincidence, not sure. Either way most of us here have shot beautiful images with canon dslrs, and everyone knows the first gen was horrible, aliasing and moire both plagued all Cannon dslrs until recently. So since shooting with the gh2 I have become so spoiled I never think about it.