The Letus Ultimate -- Experience Thread

Jason Ramsey said:
Quality of the image looks pretty good. It has a nice... "thickness" to it (for lack of a better word) that is appealing and is not apparent when I compare it to another of your vimeo postings there that was shot with the extreme and original HVX..

Certainly an attractive picture.


Side note: So, Kholi... Did the 200a repair your hate for the noise of the original HVX? :grin: Used to be something I saw you complain about a lot in the past, so just curious how you feel about the noise levels of the 200a in comparison.... Night and day? Won you over again? A lot better? A little better?

Later,
Jason
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I definitely agree with you, Jason. Strange enough the difference between real glass and the coating used on these ground glasses in comparison to what the Extreme has. Although it still loses the same amount of light, it feels a lot more "natural" than before. Although you may mean something different, that's what I consider it. I suppose the real glass and the coating working together arrive at an organic feel.

And YES. Absolutely. It's no secret: I abhor the original HVX200. The 200A is a much better camera, noise ratios are lower which means better lowlight performance when using gain (IMO acceptable up to +9dB) which naturally makes it better for anyone using any adapter. In the end I would say it's a lot better and I'll only be selling my HVX200A in September to grab a 170 and Convergent Designs nanoFlash Unit.

I do admit that I am STILL thinking HPX500 but it's such a large camera. The difference is a little too much for me.
 
It's pretty startling just how much cleaner the 200a is. At least to my eyes it looks like it's higher resolution than the original 200 too, but that could just be Kholi's skills. :thumbsup:
 
I also agree with all three of you on the adapters... thanks Kholi for shedding a little more light on the subject, and PaPa and Jason have good points. I too still prefer the SGpro Rev.3 that we will be using for the up coming project. But if you consider what the difference the speed of the Ultimate or even the Xtreme, it often is cheaper to get the Letus than to get all the other lights. You also might work a tad faster. Both very appealing aspects to consider when you can't get enough light, and I would have put up with the Xtreme. Considering all of this, to me the Ultimate is more money for doing away with almost all limitations, in terms of additional problem areas that adapters are still known for possessing at this stage in the evolution of this (to use Kholi's words) niche. Other than for bokeh and speed, the SGpros and Letus Xtremes Ultimates are the kings, and not too far off from eachother as far as I understand. So take your pick, smaller Elec and Grip packages and smaller crew, or a better bokeh rendition... and now the difference is even smaller, for a bigger price... and all of this will likely change once the Blade is out... hope we get a faster SGpro for 2k less than the Ultimate... and then the Ultimate will have to compete.

Also, unfortunately it seems that the one adapter with exchangeable GG's is still not going to happen... possibly ever...

Isaac_Brody said:
It's pretty startling just how much cleaner the 200a is. At least to my eyes it looks like it's higher resolution than the original 200 too, but that could just be Kholi's skills. :thumbsup:
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You could easily argue that less noise IS more resolution... incorrect data is basically dead (or drunk :beer:) pixels, so having those idiot pixels not try to mess up by holding up a darker sign like people on a stadium's seats making a sign with a bunch o' little "signs" of one solid color each, and now you have more valid information... resolution.
 
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Well, arguing about "bokeh" rendition is probably the worst thing to do as there aren't enough side-by-side comparisons with the EXACT SAME VARIABLES to even prove that one adapter renders bokeh better than the other under all circumstances. The term gets flopped around and the definition and even pronunciation of the word is beyond the average person that tosses it around. It goes so much further than a ground glass.

That even goes with the Extreme vs SGpro.

One thing that's going to be a prevailing argument is price: There's not one single post here that foregos mentioning the Ultimate's price, which means most of the "pre-opinions" are formed on the dollar amount. The SGBlade is a great idea until the price is announced and it's not what everyone thought it was gonna be. Same thing that happens every time something is released. RED ONE is a prime example. That's a given, as it's out of the price range of most people on the boards. Can't do anything about it.

And the last factor? How much people actually shoot versus speculate. You can't ever defeat a person's speculation and I'm now seeing that there's really no point in bothering to do so. :B
 
USLatin said:
You could easily argue that less noise IS more resolution... incorrect data is basically dead (or drunk :beer:) pixels, so having those idiot pixels not try to mess up by holding up a darker sign like people on a stadium's seats making a sign with a bunch o' little "signs" of one solid color each, and now you have more valid information... resolution.
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Actually, the CCD's are slightly larger. The combination of that hard fact and the speculation that noise signal being lowered may increase the perception of image clarity or "sharpness" well... Isaac is probably right: the larger CCDs (1/3" is not 1/3") may have made a very slight, but noticeable to those of us whom use or see the footage often, impact on the overall resolving power of the HVX200A.
 
Kholi said:
Well, arguing about "bokeh" rendition is probably the worst thing to do as there aren't enough side-by-side comparisons with the EXACT SAME VARIABLES to even prove that one adapter renders bokeh better than the other under all circumstances. The term gets flopped around and the definition and even pronunciation of the word is beyond the average person that tosses it around. It goes so much further than a ground glass.

That even goes with the Extreme vs SGpro.

One thing that's going to be a prevailing argument is price: There's not one single post here that foregos mentioning the Ultimate's price, which means most of the "pre-opinions" are formed on the dollar amount. The SGBlade is a great idea until the price is announced and it's not what everyone thought it was gonna be. Same thing that happens every time something is released. RED ONE is a prime example. That's a given, as it's out of the price range of most people on the boards. Can't do anything about it.

And the last factor? How much people actually shoot versus speculate. You can't ever defeat a person's speculation and I'm now seeing that there's really no point in bothering to do so. :B
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Yes, but do you read any posts arguing that the Letus adapters render better "bokeh"? I don't think you can say that any other adapter holds more votes on bokeh than the SGpro... and I am not saying under all circumbstances, but it sounds and looks by sheer statistics that the SGpro has a much better bokeh-horsepower curve... simple as that... it looks BETTER to MORE people. Period. Unless that changes I think the argument, not the details, on which adapter pleases more people is settled. Cause after all that is what the idea is, to make it clear, to the point, interesting, trapping and beautiful within the fitting parameters for a fitting look for the concept of the project itself.

I think I've been looking at images from HVX's with all adapters and all lens combinations for quite enough time now. And this comes with someone without a personal adapter, and by that I mean un-biased.

I do think Kholi that you can very well know what you want your project to look like by looking at online (LCD color correction). And you sure won't see a Letus in my BTS pics.

But I completely agree with you that the price can change it all, and neither Blade or the Ultimate have announced a figure and set it in stone... at least that's what I know.

Kholi said:
Actually, the CCD's are slightly larger. The combination of that hard fact and the speculation that noise signal being lowered may increase the perception of image clarity or "sharpness" well... Isaac is probably right: the larger CCDs (1/3" is not 1/3") may have made a very slight, but noticeable to those of us whom use or see the footage often, impact on the overall resolving power of the HVX200A.
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I'd say that it seems my explanation (minus the Irish pixels) sounds quite solid, and the size of the imager only helps in that the light signal and amount of light are stronger and more. Or that they added more lines of sensors and have bigger averages calculated with different pixel shift math.
 
That 200a looks gooder than a mofo. OMG the bokeh argument is so last season. The LEX in black accessorizing a 200a is so 2008!
 
I'm sorry, but could you point me to one controlled bokeh comparison test using the same variables?

I can, and it belongs to Tim Naylor. It's SGpro vs Extreme and there's some bokeh going on there where you can see the differences.

You, however, have NEVER seen a single solid bokeh-to-bokeh comparison betwen the SGpro or Letus Ultimate. So, once again, you're speculating and you truly have no clue.

Does everyone on these boards utilize the exact same lenses? I mean, you do know that the SGpro can't render any bokeh, right? And that the lens itself is more important in the rendition of Bokeh than the actual ground glass? Since it dictates the shape of the bokeh, the texture, the size (iris), etc etc. You do know that right?

Don't take it as an argument, just the truth. Please, just go out and get your own experience instead of hashing up everyone elses as "fact". It's not.

This isn't even about Letus vs Brevis vs M2 vs the McDonald's Drive-Thru Employee. It's about the lack of field experience and speculation.
 
Kholi said:
Well, arguing about "bokeh" rendition is probably the worst thing to do as there aren't enough side-by-side comparisons with the EXACT SAME VARIABLES to even prove that one adapter renders bokeh better than the other under all circumstances.

And the last factor? How much people actually shoot versus speculate. You can't ever defeat a person's speculation and I'm now seeing that there's really no point in bothering to do so. :B
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Funny You should say that, because ....

Kholi said:
Take it as my opinion, but I don't think a 2000.00 SGblade or anything that doesn't match the Ultimate shot for shot in every single area is going to compete.
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The SGPRO blade is not even out yet and you already stamp your ultimatum and sealed its faith ??
 
Kholi said:
you truly have no clue
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And how could you have a clue about that?!?
I have spend about 20hs a week on this forum for four years... I am no DP by any means, but the buzz is not about the Ultimate's bokeh, it is about it's speed and lack of limitations, simple as that dude... and the pictures are nice and clear for everyone to comment on.
Also, the buzz on bokeh is about the SGpro's and used to be about the M2's...

what, exactly, are you saying?
 
I went ahead and forewent a rude reply and instead will say: two different comments, two different subjects.

<3 Dxmetal.
 
USLatin said:
And how could you have a clue about that?!?
I have spend about 20hs a week on this forum for four years... I am no DP by any means, but the buzz is not about the Ultimate's bokeh, it is about it's speed and lack of limitations, simple as that dude... and the pictures are nice and clear for everyone to comment on.
Also, the buzz on bokeh is about the SGpro's and used to be about the M2's...

what, exactly, are you saying?
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How many times have you shot with an SGpro?
 
This isn't even about Letus vs Brevis vs M2 vs the McDonald's Drive-Thru Employee.
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I vote for Indonesian McDonald's Drive-Thru employees over American ones anyday... They are way more polite, and they actually get my order right and I don't even speak the language!... wait... what were we talking about... bogies?

:evil:

Later,
Jason
 
Jason Ramsey said:
I vote for Indonesian McDonald's Drive-Thru employees over American ones anyday... They are way more polite, and they actually get my order right and I don't even speak the language!... wait... what were we talking about... bogies?

:evil:

Later,
Jason
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What!? No way dude, American McDonald's Drive-Thru Employees render MUCH better bokeh than Indonesian's. Trust me, I've seen it on the McDonald's message boards.
 
That's exactly my point. You have no real world experience with the adapter. Your only experience with anything outside of an M2 is vicarious. Can you point me to a link where you've seen a bokeh comparison on par with Leni Levy's Controlled (as best his ability, bless his soul, cause that stuff is not fun to do) Sharpness tests?

Strict control of variables, including using the same lenses and same camera?
 
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