The Dark Knight

We have a theater close by called "The Galaxy" and it's got one screen that's something like 70' wide... not sure of the actual size, they call it the mega screen... the last movie I saw there was the last star wars, and it definitely made me nauseous, of course that could have been the fault of the movie.

I'm certainly going to see TDN again... I can't get it out of my head. Really it's the Joker's relationship to Batman that I find so compelling. I'm sure this isn't an original thought... but this still gave me warm fuzzies...

SPOILER ANALYSIS BELOW IN GRAY

The joker didn't really want the mob to kill Batman... rather, it was an intelligent use of Batman to help the Joker gain power over them! Batman did MOST of the Joker's work for him! For the first time I don't even think the Joker himself wants to kill Batman... the Joker wants Batman OR himself to die within a chaos that he brought about. He wants to see Batman die, but he doesn't want to specifically kill him. He is delighting in the bizarre dance that's only this impressive because the stakes are truly that high. That's a really poetic thought to me... and one I'd like to have in mind on a second viewing.

When the Joker is shaking his head wildly outside of the cop car... like a dog... you realize that what he told Harvey Dent in the hospital really was true. For some reason this idea is gripping to me... especially in light of the real life events of Heath Ledger... I HAVE to see it again on the big screen, but this time as something of a fascinating commentary on life, and melancholy eulogy.
 
Re: Robin

So there's all this talk about how if Robin was in the third film, Nolan and Bale would walk. But I would actually like to see Nolan's vision of Robin. A really dark Robin. Could be kinda cool.
 
Mark Harris said:
Also, I didn't understand when Joker gave them the choice, why not just call the uptown precinct and tell them to get to her. I mean, in NYC there are -precincts like every 5 blocks. And even in LA Confidential, Exley could call in the Hollywood Sheriff to watch Lynn because they wouldn't get to her in time.
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Without overanalyzing or making up stuff to cover for the filmmakers, I feel that there were two very good reasons why a call wasn't made/was unnecessary... (Possible Spoilers Ahead)

1. The paranoia of corruption within the city's civil servants. As for your L.A. Confidential comparison, I don't think it works because this is Gotham, not L.A. In L.A, yes, the police were corrupt, but more because they were operating by their own rules, then because they were in the mob's pockets. Also, Gordon's team just found out that the only reason that Dent and Dawes were missing was because someone within their own task force's ranks betrayed them. I'm sorry, but I think that with that kind of immediate blow to trust in the already paranoid atmosphere of corruption, picking up a phone to ask for help would be the last thing on anyone's mind.

2. But even if you don't buy that, then picking up a phone wasn't even necessary because of proximity. If I'm remembering correctly, even before the location addresses are given, the counter on the explosives shows less than 5 minutes remaining. That means the PD where the interrogation was taking place was close enough to both warehouses for the conversation to finish, the building (interrogation room was in a lower level) to be exited, the distance to be driven, building broken into, and for Dent to be untied and carried out while struggling, all before the counter reached 0:00. From the beginning of the scene, when Joker asks Gordon what time it is, everyone knows that time is on the line. When the addresses are given, I'm sure that if they weren't already very near them, then perhaps I would be able to have more of a problem with them not calling for some support.

That said... the cell phone bit was kinda a stretch for me.
 
c.g._eads said:
Re: Robin

So there's all this talk about how if Robin was in the third film, Nolan and Bale would walk. But I would actually like to see Nolan's vision of Robin. A really dark Robin. Could be kinda cool.
Click to expand...

Not in a million years could Nolan make Robin work. Not in the version he's created.

Same goes for Penguin, Catwoman, and most of the other silly characters in the Batman universe. So it goes without saying I'm very curious to see who the next villain will be.
 
MattinSTL said:
We have a theater close by called "The Galaxy" and it's got one screen that's something like 70' wide... not sure of the actual size, they call it the mega screen... the last movie I saw there was the last star wars, and it definitely made me nauseous, of course that could have been the fault of the movie.
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The one in Chesterfield right Matt, Boones Crossing? Yeah I've been there pretty cool. We also have a IMAX at Ronnies 20 Cinema. Its worth a go if you can get a seat in the back.
 
DeadEyesSmiling said:
Without overanalyzing or making up stuff to cover for the filmmakers, I feel that there were two very good reasons why a call wasn't made/was unnecessary... (Possible Spoilers Ahead)

1. The paranoia of corruption within the city's civil servants. As for your L.A. Confidential comparison, I don't think it works because this is Gotham, not L.A. In L.A, yes, the police were corrupt, but more because they were operating by their own rules, then because they were in the mob's pockets. Also, Gordon's team just found out that the only reason that Dent and Dawes were missing was because someone within their own task force's ranks betrayed them. I'm sorry, but I think that with that kind of immediate blow to trust in the already paranoid atmosphere of corruption, picking up a phone to ask for help would be the last thing on anyone's mind.

2. But even if you don't buy that, then picking up a phone wasn't even necessary because of proximity. If I'm remembering correctly, even before the location addresses are given, the counter on the explosives shows less than 5 minutes remaining. That means the PD where the interrogation was taking place was close enough to both warehouses for the conversation to finish, the building (interrogation room was in a lower level) to be exited, the distance to be driven, building broken into, and for Dent to be untied and carried out while struggling, all before the counter reached 0:00. From the beginning of the scene, when Joker asks Gordon what time it is, everyone knows that time is on the line. When the addresses are given, I'm sure that if they weren't already very near them, then perhaps I would be able to have more of a problem with them not calling for some support.

That said... the cell phone bit was kinda a stretch for me.
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The point I'm making though is that you basically just made all that up. It wasn't in the film. The filmmakers never said any of that. The only reason I bring up LA Confidential, is because it's a case where what's on the screen is what is. You never have to sit and assume all this stuff probably happened, or something might have happened, or so and so probably did this because of X. It's the difference between airtight screenwriting and screenwriting with some holes in it. I wish they would have plugged some of those holes because they took me personally out of the movie.
 
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DeadEyesSmiling said:
1. The paranoia of corruption within the city's civil servants. As for your L.A. Confidential comparison, I don't think it works because this is Gotham, not L.A. In L.A, yes, the police were corrupt, but more because they were operating by their own rules, then because they were in the mob's pockets. Also, Gordon's team just found out that the only reason that Dent and Dawes were missing was because someone within their own task force's ranks betrayed them. I'm sorry, but I think that with that kind of immediate blow to trust in the already paranoid atmosphere of corruption, picking up a phone to ask for help would be the last thing on anyone's mind.

2. But even if you don't buy that, then picking up a phone wasn't even necessary because of proximity. If I'm remembering correctly, even before the location addresses are given, the counter on the explosives shows less than 5 minutes remaining. That means the PD where the interrogation was taking place was close enough to both warehouses for the conversation to finish, the building (interrogation room was in a lower level) to be exited, the distance to be driven, building broken into, and for Dent to be untied and carried out while struggling, all before the counter reached 0:00. From the beginning of the scene, when Joker asks Gordon what time it is, everyone knows that time is on the line. When the addresses are given, I'm sure that if they weren't already very near them, then perhaps I would be able to have more of a problem with them not calling for some support.

That said... the cell phone bit was kinda a stretch for me.
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Well, we're talking about two people's lives here. What's the worst thing that could happen by making that call. You reach a corrupt cop who hears your pleas, says, "yeah sure, we'll take care of it", hangs up and then doesn't do anything. Rachel still dies. But since we're talking about someone's *life* here, why exactly wouldn't you at least *try*? By not trying the person dies for sure.

As for your second point. If they were close enough to reach both buildings then Batman should've said, "I'm going to this address and you go to that one." Then Gordon could've saved Rachel. If they weren't close enough to reach both buildings, then they should've called. Simple.
 
The police were watching Batman interrogate Joker, so they heard both addresses. No reason for Batman to tell anyone the exact address. They cops knew both, they were getting ready to leave when Batman stormed out and jumped on his bike. Gordon asks, "Which one will you save?" and Batman growls "Rachel". The Joker knew this, sent him to Harvey instead. Batman (being Batman) can get there in time to save him--which means it was in the vicinity of the station he was just at.

Meanwhile, the cops go to save "Harvey" (really Rachel) at the same time Batman is heading to the other address but they show up right as the building explodes. Oops, too late, but they tried. For all we know they did radio for help but there weren't any other officers nearby.

Are you sure we saw the same movie? It doesn't seem that hard to understand what happened in that scene.

Michael.
 
Butcher said:
Meanwhile, the cops go to save "Harvey" (really Rachel) at the same time Batman is heading to the other address but they show up right as the building explodes. Oops, too late, but they tried. For all we know they did radio for help but there weren't any other officers nearby.
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Actually they did. Gordon gets on the radio while in the car and gives out the address over the air as all the squad cars race to the scene.

That and the fact that they were obviously roughly 5 minutes away (the timer reveals this) tells me that they were pretty close themselves.

I had zero issues with how that scene played out.

My only real issues with the entire movie.... How come nobody noticed that there were 50 barrels set to an explosive device in the cargo hold of the boats? Seems like somebody would have caught that before setting off.

Mike
 
Jared Meyer said:
Not in a million years could Nolan make Robin work. Not in the version he's created.

Same goes for Penguin, Catwoman, and most of the other silly characters in the Batman universe. So it goes without saying I'm very curious to see who the next villain will be.
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The villain who fits best into Nolan's Batman is The Riddler. Nolan loves puzzles in movies already. He should be handled like the Zodiac killer, almost never seen, maybe not at all.
 
If there is a third one, I don't think I'll see it.

This was def the Empire strikes back Godfather part 2 of comic book movies. I think the Joker had the most interesting/deep way of looking at crime, chaos, justice. I don't know who else could fill the villian role and still be compelling after all that was seen in 'Knight'

Nolan's franchise seems so much more haunting and tragic if they stopped here,

...but then again there's a need in me for closure and balance, so I don't know, if anyone can pull it off it's Nolan.
 
Its funny, in a way with all the twists and turns and choices and such, he almost blended a bit of the riddler and joker in one. Maybe just a hint of it but I never thought of that until you mentioned The Riddler. Interesting....

I would LOVE to see the Riddler again...he's the one I can think of that isn't too far out there like previously mentioned like Penguin. Riddler fit into the real world as a mastermind without some sort of wacky disfigurment or whatever. Just a madman who loves deadly puzzles. I can see it being handled very well by Nolan.

The other thing is Nolans Batman has a lot more intelligence in it than I think has been shown thus far, so the puzzles would be very mind blowing I think...it would have to be to match Bruce's intelligence (and other around him).
 
A question:

How is the IMAX experience going to translate when this bad boy comes out on DVD/Blu-Ray? Is it going to be pillar-boxed, or just stick with the standard widescreen framing? Either way, we won't be able to see it "as intended."
 
c.g._eads said:
Nolan vs. Bale? Who do you think is more important to the franchise? Who do you think *the studio* thinks is more important to the franchise?
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Given that we've been through three directors, four Batmen, and a complete reboot through six films in 20 years... I would hope the studio is smart enough to realize that neither of them is essential to the franchise.

That said, my vote would be for Nolan. Partially because he's been involved in the writing of both his films, but mostly because it seems to me that the director is really what makes the difference. I don't care who's starring as Batman, if you tell me that Joel Schumacher is directing another Batman movie, I wouldn't go that if the theater was the only air-condition place in hell. :D Conversely, having Nolan's name on this one was enough to bring me in opening weekend despite A) not being sure Ledger was right for the role and B) being sick to death of all the hype about it being Ledger's last performance and all that. (And, having seen it, I have to say that I was wrong and Ledger fit the role, as Nolan envisioned it, perfectly.)

And I have to say that the "calling another precinct" thing really doesn't bother me, but that's probably because I live in a town that doesn't have another precinct (and wasn't that a great idea last month when police HQ had ten feet of water in it :) ). Look at it this way, though--the Joker knew that he'd be taken to MCU, because it's Gordon's facility, so he would have chosen locations that only MCU could have gotten to in time. And yeah, it's not spelled out like that in the movie... but come on, the thing was already two and a half hours long (and frankly, that was a little too much for me).
 
KyleProhaska said:
Just for fun....a little taste of Nickolsons Joker:

http://www.kyleprohaska.com/joker.mov
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I'm curious what your take is on this... I don't want to offend, but my first thought was that you intended to show how much better the new Joker is... where are you coming from on this?

What I thought was obvious may be the opposite of what you intended.

Just to clarify... I positively LOVED the new Joker... there's only one reason I'll be seeing this for $10 again... and that's Heath.
 
This isn't directed at anyone, but to those who compare Nicolson to Ledger, I say no.

I think Nicolson embodied the type of character that should have been portrayed in the 89 version and Ledger did the same in 08 version. They're both great interpretations that complemented the gotham city at that time. The Gotham's they lived in were quite different, so it's an apples to oranges type of argument IMHO.
 
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