puredrifting
Major Contributor
That's true, I was completely taken by surprise when the C200 debuted, I thought we would have a C100 MKIII, which we still may get at some point.
C200: The Canon C200 Petition
- Thread starter tenbit
- Start date
That's true, I was completely taken by surprise when the C200 debuted, I thought we would have a C100 MKIII, which we still may get at some point.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Rumor/speculation but the introduction and existence of the C200 makes this a very strong probability within the next 8-10 months.
cpreston
Veteran
Well, since you are obviously interested, I currently have the C300 II, two C100 II's, an XC15 and a few EOS-M's. Sometimes, I will record to my Sound Devices Pix-E recorder when I want to go straight to Pro-Res although it rarely seems useful. Most of my clients still request the C100 II's for corporate promotional work since we can just shoot for hours and the memory requirements are inconsequential to their budget, both for capture and for storage. Also, I try to light and shoot so that they need to do minimal color correction in post. For those clients, the C200's 4K long GOP would be the logical step up when they work with a company that thinks they need 4K or we are doing a teleprompter read and they think they might be forced to do cut-ins on a 1080p timeline. My clients definitely benefit from the better 4K or the 1080p 4:4:4 when we are doing product shots, though. In fact, the current C200 specs is exactly what they need. I might even have told Canon that when they sent me that survey last year about how I was using their cinema cameras, so I personally might be the cause of the lack of mid range 4K on the C200. Sorry.
Joking aside, if it makes you feel better to send this change.org petition with 100 electronic signatures to "CEO and Chariman, Canon USA Joe Adachi", then more power to you. What many people on this forum are trying to tell you, and it is not nonsense, is that Canon will completely ignore it. That's all.
On last thought before i leave you to your work convincing people to sign your petition, if you really want to contact the people with power to change the camera then you will need to get in touch with Canon cinema team in Japan. My experience has been that nobody working for Canon USA has any idea what is going on with the cinema group.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Canon does seem to behave in fairly regular patterns if you look at the big picture. I have to give them props on the C200 about innovation. Just a few months ago, I posted that Canon typically follows and doesn't lead and that the only real innovation I have seen from them in a long while was the CNe 18-80 T4.4 Servo zoom. But Canon kind of blew everyone away with internal RAW recording at not only sub-$10k but sub $8k. I have to eat my words a bit, that is true innovation. Sure, BMD has had it but I don't consider BMD a mainstream camera brand, they are more a niche player in cameras.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Canon USA, just like Panasonic USA and Sony USA, are merely marketing/distribution apparatus of the parent Japanese corporations. None of the U.S. branches design or manufacture cameras to my knowledge, they do take an active role in the design and feature sets but the actual design teams are in Japan for all three. Based upon my experience with all three, they are far more reactionary than proactive. Usually the big decisions and dictates come down the pike from Japan. I am sure Mitch could expand on this or correct me if I am wrong about if this is how Panasonic still works but a few years ago, it was.
Originally Posted by cpreston
"Well, since you are obviously interested, I currently have the C300 II, two C100 II's, an XC15 and a few EOS-M's. Sometimes, I will record to my Sound Devices Pix-E recorder when I want to go straight to Pro-Res although it rarely seems useful. Most of my clients still request the C100 II's for corporate promotional work since we can just shoot for hours and the memory requirements are inconsequential to their budget, both for capture and for storage. Also, I try to light and shoot so that they need to do minimal color correction in post. For those clients, the C200's 4K long GOP would be the logical step up when they work with a company that thinks they need 4K or we are doing a teleprompter read and they think they might be forced to do cut-ins on a 1080p timeline. My clients definitely benefit from the better 4K or the 1080p 4:4:4 when we are doing product shots, though. In fact, the current C200 specs is exactly what they need. I might even have told Canon that when they sent me that survey last year about how I was using their cinema cameras, so I personally might be the cause of the lack of mid range 4K on the C200. Sorry.
Joking aside, if it makes you feel better to send this change.org petition with 100 electronic signatures to "CEO and Chariman, Canon USA Joe Adachi", then more power to you. What many people on this forum are trying to tell you, and it is not nonsense, is that Canon will completely ignore it. That's all.
On last thought before i leave you to your work convincing people to sign your petition, if you really want to contact the people with power to change the camera then you will need to get in touch with Canon cinema team in Japan. My experience has been that nobody working for Canon USA has any idea what is going on with the cinema group."
Thanks for sharing Mr. Preston. And please let us know what the "Canon cinema team in Japan" has to say about using the touchscreen display with your C300mkii. Thanks
"Well, since you are obviously interested, I currently have the C300 II, two C100 II's, an XC15 and a few EOS-M's. Sometimes, I will record to my Sound Devices Pix-E recorder when I want to go straight to Pro-Res although it rarely seems useful. Most of my clients still request the C100 II's for corporate promotional work since we can just shoot for hours and the memory requirements are inconsequential to their budget, both for capture and for storage. Also, I try to light and shoot so that they need to do minimal color correction in post. For those clients, the C200's 4K long GOP would be the logical step up when they work with a company that thinks they need 4K or we are doing a teleprompter read and they think they might be forced to do cut-ins on a 1080p timeline. My clients definitely benefit from the better 4K or the 1080p 4:4:4 when we are doing product shots, though. In fact, the current C200 specs is exactly what they need. I might even have told Canon that when they sent me that survey last year about how I was using their cinema cameras, so I personally might be the cause of the lack of mid range 4K on the C200. Sorry.
Joking aside, if it makes you feel better to send this change.org petition with 100 electronic signatures to "CEO and Chariman, Canon USA Joe Adachi", then more power to you. What many people on this forum are trying to tell you, and it is not nonsense, is that Canon will completely ignore it. That's all.
On last thought before i leave you to your work convincing people to sign your petition, if you really want to contact the people with power to change the camera then you will need to get in touch with Canon cinema team in Japan. My experience has been that nobody working for Canon USA has any idea what is going on with the cinema group."
Thanks for sharing Mr. Preston. And please let us know what the "Canon cinema team in Japan" has to say about using the touchscreen display with your C300mkii. Thanks
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Canon's dual pixel auto focus system is, by far, world's best. I've written here a while back that it would be a dominant video feature, should Canon ever want to include it in their models, pro and consumer alike. And they have, albeit after crippling other features on the number of their units. Within a year or two, their consumer cameras (follow ups to 80D, 5D MKIV, 6D MKII, etc.) should have features closer resembling GH5 - i.e, 4K with a full sensor readout and a 10-bit codec - and will drive the video camera industry into the commoditization territory.
I've seen in a fair few interviews with Canon and Larry T saying Canon PRIMARILY make glass and are pioneers in lens tech, hence where we are with dual AF and the servo zooms etc but this maybe why the camera tech is not always trying to pioneer or lead the way like RED or BMD but I guess once in awhile Canon get their game on.
The C200 is a clear step that a shift is happening for the C-line and where they see the market going in the near future with raw but it always seems like a beat behind the competition until people start to realize they need a camera that works in most situations over the extra bells and the whistles.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
It will be really interesting to see if Canon goes for a C100 MKIII and what it will have (just a C200 with no Cinema RAW Light? Only the .MP4?) It will also be interesting to see if Canon makes a C300 MKIII (probable) or keeps the 300 MKII for a while and makes a C400 that is between the C300 MKII and the C700. We know that the C200 and everything above will eventually have internal Cinema RAW Light, which I think is a brilliant differentiator between Canon C cameras and their competitors. They should put it into everything and then let the higher end stuff still do regular RAW out to Odysseys and Shoguns as well. While the Codex product is great, it is way out of reach for all but big budget features, I can's see episodic ever going to it but I could easily see episodic going to Cinema RAW Light once it becomes integrated into the big three editing programs.
No Raw Light, no CFast 2.0 slot. Dual SD, XF-AFC 305 Mbps. $3,500.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Mitch Gross
Veteran
I'm not going to go into detail because that's proprietary corporate info. but I will note that I'm about to leave for a week of meetings in Japan. And I've been prepping for it in various ways for quite some time. And we talk all the time.
Michael Thames
Carbonite Member
Mitch that was more information than I could handle in one post, Im gonna have to ponder this one for a long time.
wschmid
Well-known member
I think it is not point how organizations like Panasonic or Sony perform their decision making.
Here we are talking about the missing 10bit codec with the C200, what is a very specific failure by Canon. That is acceptable for a camcorder of $ 1.999, but not for the price level of the C200. I for my part will stick with my FS7, as long as there is no good 10bit codec with newer s35mm cameras.
I'm looking at this as a potential raw camera with proxy daily recording capability. Anyone know yet if you can record C-fast raw and SD card video at the same time?
Mitch Gross
Veteran
It is amazing that a few individualson a forum feel that they know everything about how multinational corporations work and that they also believe that they alone can influence decision-making processes.
There are more things on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophies.
A petition is not a bad idea on its face. If you want it to have any influence then find a way to attach sales numbers to it. That is the only language that makes any sense. Add feature X and my company will buy 50. Add feature Y and mine will buy 100. That begins to get attention, enough that other companies are polled. Otherwise you are spitting in the wind.
I do not work for Canon. But I know the way these things work at companies large and small.
And if anyone thinks that Japan (or Germany or anywhere else) simply dictates then you don't know how things are done. There is tons of market research, which isn't just someone looking at a bunch of Excel spreadsheets. It's talking to clients. Clients who either buy lots of cameras or dictate to others what they should use. And talking to DPs, and to rental houses, and to resellers, and to lots and lots of people. Many if not most of these conversations are not direct question/answer, but instead are situations in which a manufacturer will not give away any indication as to its plans, and instead just listens to the other people. And then that info is all taken in and evaluated.
We all do listen to what is said on forums and social media, but don't think that you are more than one of many voices. And don't think that The US market, or the EU market or any market that isn't inside the territorial waters of Japan is ignored. Any company that didn't do that would be out of business pretty quick.
And don't forget about China, an absolutely huge market with very different needs from others.
There are more things on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophies.
A petition is not a bad idea on its face. If you want it to have any influence then find a way to attach sales numbers to it. That is the only language that makes any sense. Add feature X and my company will buy 50. Add feature Y and mine will buy 100. That begins to get attention, enough that other companies are polled. Otherwise you are spitting in the wind.
I do not work for Canon. But I know the way these things work at companies large and small.
And if anyone thinks that Japan (or Germany or anywhere else) simply dictates then you don't know how things are done. There is tons of market research, which isn't just someone looking at a bunch of Excel spreadsheets. It's talking to clients. Clients who either buy lots of cameras or dictate to others what they should use. And talking to DPs, and to rental houses, and to resellers, and to lots and lots of people. Many if not most of these conversations are not direct question/answer, but instead are situations in which a manufacturer will not give away any indication as to its plans, and instead just listens to the other people. And then that info is all taken in and evaluated.
We all do listen to what is said on forums and social media, but don't think that you are more than one of many voices. And don't think that The US market, or the EU market or any market that isn't inside the territorial waters of Japan is ignored. Any company that didn't do that would be out of business pretty quick.
And don't forget about China, an absolutely huge market with very different needs from others.