C200: The Canon C200 Petition
- Thread starter tenbit
- Start date
cpreston
Veteran
This is one of things that doesn't seem to have been mentioned, yet. Back in my car modifying and experimenting days, I had a GTI with a turbo. For a simple software upgrade form a non-VW affiliated tuner I could get 50 more horsepower and a 100 lbs of torque. Heck, if I wanted to tune could probably have gotten 150 more horsepower before the engine fried. The problem was that I now needed a better suspension and brakes to deal with the extra power. A new intake and exhaust also helped. When all was said and done, I had a car that was significantly quicker than my "crippled" stock car but it also had some serious reliability issues and nobody else liked driving it because it really wasn't very user friendly.
While I am sure that Canon makes some choices that are intended to maintain the profitability of there cinema division, I also think some of the choices have to do with engineering design and user experience limitations. Assuming that everything Canon does is due to screw over the consumer by crippling their cameras in order to maintain the price differential of their top of the line camera is a little naive. For example, the limitation on the long gop 4K could very well be related to the heat transfer and write speed of the SD card slots. Canon knows that they can get an MXF codec on the cards, but they aren't quite sure what will work yet and need to test how reliability of the SD cards slots. Heat is a legitimate issue. It may also be that Canon doesn't want to dump a codec into the market for which most current SD cards won't work. If they do, they are going to be listening to a lot of grumpy customers complaining that their camera won't work and keeps on shutting down half a minute into recording. And this would be a serious concern for a company as conservative about their user experience as Canon.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Good points. I think there are many considerations that consumers are clueless about without a product design and engineering background. These factors are why many of us buy Canon, Sony and Panasonic and not BMD or Kinefinity. We know what when we turn on the camera, it will work. Almost always.
I would reasonably imagine that the cfast cards, on the C200, are more than capable of handling 4k 60p, 2k/hd to 120, no crop, etc.. No need to limit one self via SD cards. So media ability is a non factor.
Let's be clear on this, Canon themselves have stated that the C200 is many times more powerful than the C300mkii re internal processing,recording,etc...
Let's be clear on this, Canon themselves have stated that the C200 is many times more powerful than the C300mkii re internal processing,recording,etc...
Yes, this is true but the C300 MKII was released in 2015 and the C200 is about to be released now mid 2017 so of course it will ahead in specs, 2 years is a long time in tech.
With the rate everything is progressing, I imagine the C200 is already last years news for Canon RD and they have bunch more C-cams on the bench that has everything we're asking for.
The Sony A7S MKI was upgraded to 4K internal with the MKII about 1 year later, this is just how it is.
Some ways it will be a better camera and other ways people will miss something from the old line but overall it's the evolution of the model line.
walkermurch
New member
Thank you Andree - spot on on all counts.
Quality
Quality
Come on guys, enough nonsense already- let's forget about using Vimeo or Youtube as your image quality reference. OBVIOUSLY the idea is to capture as much information as possible. And stop mixing up data rate, bit depth, and color sampling- each is "independent" of the other and they do NOT replace one another. There is a reason why people love the Alexa, RED, and the F65 (considered by many to be the best camera currently available and chosen by Storaro with good reason). I created the C200 Petition for those, like myself, who were tired of ancient codec's in modern cameras. And this is NOT about cars or hamburgers, but rather very expensive professional digital cinema tools that we use every day to make a living by creating wonderful images. So either support the petition, or don't, but please stop the nonsense.
Quality
Come on guys, enough nonsense already- let's forget about using Vimeo or Youtube as your image quality reference. OBVIOUSLY the idea is to capture as much information as possible. And stop mixing up data rate, bit depth, and color sampling- each is "independent" of the other and they do NOT replace one another. There is a reason why people love the Alexa, RED, and the F65 (considered by many to be the best camera currently available and chosen by Storaro with good reason). I created the C200 Petition for those, like myself, who were tired of ancient codec's in modern cameras. And this is NOT about cars or hamburgers, but rather very expensive professional digital cinema tools that we use every day to make a living by creating wonderful images. So either support the petition, or don't, but please stop the nonsense.
Sorry but, with respect, you have misunderstood, and/or NOT read, the petition. It simply, and reasonably, asks Canon to include a 10bit/422 codec when it "upgrades" the camera (as they have already confirmed they will do) in "early 2018". There is NO request for modifications prior to shipping. We are simply asking Canon to upgrade to a better codec (it appears that they wish to "upgrade to 8bit/420- how in the world is that an upgrade?) at the time they have already promised a codec upgrade. Thank you for your support and I'm glad I was able to clarify things for you
https://www.change.org/p/canon-c200-do-it-right
https://www.change.org/p/canon-c200-do-it-right
Last edited:
AndreeOnline
Veteran
The worst case scenario for the upgrade Canon has pre-announced is that they give you 8bit, 422 intra frame compressed XF-AVC. Probably at least 300Mbit/s.
While that isn't what you are hoping to get, for me it WOULD be a substantial upgrade to 8bit, 420 long GOP. Having intra frame stability is something I value very highly.
But, hey... you want to make your voice heard. I have nothing in principle against that.
Hi "cpreston" and thanks for your reply, wherein you wrote:
"I will sign your petition if you will add the request that Canon add the 4:2:0 8 bit 4K codec to the C300 mkII. Oh yeah, and add support for the touch screen monitor to the C300 mkII."
Is saving storage space the reason you prefer the bit 420/8bit on your current C300mkii?
And re the touchscreen monitor for your C300mkii, you can buy it for $699 from B&H- it's the LM-V1.
But you'd have to write to Canon and ask about compatibility with your C300mkii.
If you do, please share what you learn with the group. Thx!
"I will sign your petition if you will add the request that Canon add the 4:2:0 8 bit 4K codec to the C300 mkII. Oh yeah, and add support for the touch screen monitor to the C300 mkII."
Is saving storage space the reason you prefer the bit 420/8bit on your current C300mkii?
And re the touchscreen monitor for your C300mkii, you can buy it for $699 from B&H- it's the LM-V1.
But you'd have to write to Canon and ask about compatibility with your C300mkii.
If you do, please share what you learn with the group. Thx!
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Canon reps have already said that the C200 touchscreen would not function with the C300 MKII, that would take a firmware re-write and possibly the newer, more powerful processors in the C200. Don't hold your breath. How often does Canon transfer new camera features to older cameras? There is a new C300 MKIII that will hit next year that'll have it.
cpreston
Veteran
Thanks for the info. This was the first I had heard that, but I had assumed that would be the case.
In reply for Tenbit regarding low bit rate 4K, some of my work is events or concerts that require hours of footage that goes almost straight to the web. If the client request 4k or I want to do any punch ins for a 1080p deliverable, the low bit rate 4K would be preferable wasting money, transfer time and storage space on a codec that is ultimately going to be viewed at a bit rate that is around 100x lower.
Well that sounds very exciting cpreston, please let us know what Canon has to say when you contact them. I would imagine that with the C300mkii, that you obviously own now, long record times have been impractical. I'm curious, have you been using an outboard recorder or what solution did you find?
Apropos of nothing but I recently read that the best supercharger upgrade would be on a 6-cyl Camaro because it had enough headroom to absorb that extra power. (it's rated by the manufacturer at 335'ish, dyno tests it at ~ 260'ish rear wheels, a blower gets it back to "real" 350 or so).
In the camera world, this goes back to the upgrades to an existing camera. Sony's F55, as an example, had a lot of that Camaro style headroom, and was able to handle these continuous firmware upgrades. A lower end model will probably be like the GTI, except one can't get the better brakes, suspension, 1000 WPC stereo with a 12" subwoofer .. or something like that.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
If I'm not mistaken (I have only shot with the C300 MKII three times), your only choice for 4k is 410 Mbps, correct? Too bad it won't do 4K proxy.
Has this C300MkIII been confirmed by Canon or is it just a rumor/speculation for now? If confirmed, do we know any details?
Rumor was a year off: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...g-Soon&p=1986612361&viewfull=1#post1986612361
Just pure speculation, based on looking into Canon's history, current industry trends and logic. Ask @puredrifting, he also had a doubt about C200.
Most important detail is that it will have touchscreen and that it will be available at the same date when C200 gets 4k 8-bit 4:2:2 XF-AVC firmware upgrade.
Just pure speculation, based on looking into Canon's history, current industry trends and logic. Ask @puredrifting, he also had a doubt about C200.
Most important detail is that it will have touchscreen and that it will be available at the same date when C200 gets 4k 8-bit 4:2:2 XF-AVC firmware upgrade.