Tascam DR-70D - what do you think?
- Thread starter OldCorpse
- Start date
scorsesefan
Veteran
Hm. Looks like you could put this in a bag, too...
I think the battery life is not a deal-breaker, because it can be usb-powered by a battery pack. You can get those at a variety of price points, anywhere from $20 to $80 and have enough juice to have it run for days on one charge. Yes, it's an extra element, but if you were to buy the Tascam battery pack for $35, you also have an extra element (6 AA batteries), and it won't last as long. I bought a $18 battery pack for my DR-60D and it's worked really well.
re: price - I saw that link earlier, and note that he said around $300, which is nice, though if you were to translate directly from Euro prices, in Europe they're pricing it for an equivalent of about $370. If you recall, the 60D originally went for $350 in the states, so it would not be a stretch if they asked for $350 for the 70D (which is still "around" $300). Obviously, I'd prefer a lower price, but $300-$400 is not bad at all for what you get, going by the specs we have on paper. The 70D will be a first edition product, so I'm curious if it will have issues as the 60D had when it came out. Best to wait for reviews and user feedback.
I gotta say, Tascam is firing on all cylinders, they're coming out with products left and right, hard to keep up. I honestly feel they'll eat a lot of competitors lunch including Zoom and Juicedlink. Exciting times to be a filmmaker!
re: price - I saw that link earlier, and note that he said around $300, which is nice, though if you were to translate directly from Euro prices, in Europe they're pricing it for an equivalent of about $370. If you recall, the 60D originally went for $350 in the states, so it would not be a stretch if they asked for $350 for the 70D (which is still "around" $300). Obviously, I'd prefer a lower price, but $300-$400 is not bad at all for what you get, going by the specs we have on paper. The 70D will be a first edition product, so I'm curious if it will have issues as the 60D had when it came out. Best to wait for reviews and user feedback.
I gotta say, Tascam is firing on all cylinders, they're coming out with products left and right, hard to keep up. I honestly feel they'll eat a lot of competitors lunch including Zoom and Juicedlink. Exciting times to be a filmmaker!
scorsesefan
Veteran
Yeah, Tom Duffy mentions "bag work" so that's cool. I was thinking of buying the dr-680 but I'll wait to see the reviews on the pres on this model...
AtticusLake
Well-known member
I was wondering the same thing... not to mention where do the batteries go...
Maybe the panel between the mics on the front hinges down?
Bruce Watson
Veteran
What do I think? I could certainly do without the mics. I'll never use 'em, so their just taking up space and costing money that I don't want to spend.
Other than that? It's nice that Tascam is actually listening and responding to us. Too bad SD doesn't seem inclined to do so. If this little guy sounds good and has good limiters, I think it likely that SD will see it in a drop in sales of MixPre-Ds.
SD could give us recording in the MixPre-D, but has chosen not to. And no, the 633 isn't what I'm talking about. $3.3k USD is at least 8x too high for the market that's going to buy this new Tascam.
Other than that? It's nice that Tascam is actually listening and responding to us. Too bad SD doesn't seem inclined to do so. If this little guy sounds good and has good limiters, I think it likely that SD will see it in a drop in sales of MixPre-Ds.
SD could give us recording in the MixPre-D, but has chosen not to. And no, the 633 isn't what I'm talking about. $3.3k USD is at least 8x too high for the market that's going to buy this new Tascam.
There are fewer and fewer mid-budget movies made. It's getting pretty segmented into ginormous and piddly, with nothing in-between. That seems to me to cut down on the upper end pro gear demand and expand the indie no-money market. So I thought that SD would look at that, and want to make up the shrinking by going after the indie custom. In that light, I thought Tascam was being very smart and likely to start eating SD's lunch. I wrote a post to that effect, but I was quickly set straight - apparently SD doesn't care, because they are happy just at the upper end, so don't care what Tascam is doing on the lower end because that's not a market they're interested in. Now, I personally have no idea, because I'm not any kind of expert in this field, just reporting on what I was told. Bottom line: I felt like you did in the SD vs Tascam market situation, but now I just don't know. On the mics - true those might seem useless, but I think they're going after the Zoom H6, if you look at the spec sheet: number of xlrs, mics etc.. Personally, I'll probably never use them, but I was thinking about getting an on-cam mic just to have a scratch track and in some circumstances it might save the day - but I was thinking of putting something like the AT875r on, rather than using the omnis on the unit here, but who knows, maybe that makes more sense. There are one-man band type guys/gals eng or docu where perhaps it might be useful. But I still suspect it's mostly so the Zoom H6 doesn't have a talking point advantage here with mics. Plus if it comes in below $400, I really do see it hitting the H6 pretty hard. All that is dependent on how good the 70D is of course, and if there are any gotchas or problems and for that we'll have to wait.
scorsesefan
Veteran
I was thinking the same thing about SD and also Nagra. If they released a paired down recorder in the sub $1000 range they would clean up. I think some of these companies just need some fresh thinking (a la Blackmagic)...
I agree with what OzGizmo is saying about the markets. The tascams and the SoundDevices are in completely different markets.
I imagine SD could offer recording on a premix style device, but you'd expect it to be priced accordingly, and I highly suspect it would be nowhere near the tascam prices.
Oh, and on the DR-70D, I like the look of it. Its a nice inbetween of the 60D and the DR-680. form factor makes is a bit more flexable than the two, with under camera mounting, or bag mounting viable. I'm not sure on the onboard mics though. to me they don't seem necessary, but I'm sure some people might find them useful.
I imagine SD could offer recording on a premix style device, but you'd expect it to be priced accordingly, and I highly suspect it would be nowhere near the tascam prices.
Oh, and on the DR-70D, I like the look of it. Its a nice inbetween of the 60D and the DR-680. form factor makes is a bit more flexable than the two, with under camera mounting, or bag mounting viable. I'm not sure on the onboard mics though. to me they don't seem necessary, but I'm sure some people might find them useful.
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The cost of adding the mics was likely minimal, and I can see these being used for reference ambient audio or even audible shooting notes from the camera op.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Random responses.
I agree SD and especially Nagra are not particularly interested in the no budget market. For one thing once you start in the consumer market you have to deal with the very fickle consumer gear buyers. They are always looking for the new "XX killer" (name your brand leader). Case in point the discussion of the 60D being "obsolete" because there was a new model. That market expects a new model with more features and a lower price at least once a year. A really big company that make most of there stuff with injected plastic molds and robot assembly lines can do that, a small company with machined metal cases and non robotic assembly lines can't.
The professional market values on quality and dependability, the consumer market values on what is "new and trendy". You can sell a MixPre for more because it's working life is decades. I've gone through six phones since I got the MixPre (and two Palm's). I can drive my car over the MixPre and expect it to work afterword, I wouldn't try that with any consumer gear.
As to "low budget" films. You have to define terms before you use them to make them meaningful. In Hollywood terms low budget (in the 90's anyway) meant a budget under 30 million. A supper low budget independent film like My Big Fat Greek Wedding cost a bit over five million to shoot and another five to market.
On the Mini-Indi scale $30,000 to about $1,000,000 I think there has been an expansion. What you can make today for $100,000 is far more polished than was possible fifteen years ago. In the tier above that I think you may be right that fewer films are being made but some of that is because there is an entirely new market that has opened up. The extended film/ TV series really didn't exist. Now you have Hulu, Netflix, HBO, AMC, Amazon, etc all creating these new shows that kind of cross the line from film to TV. And a bunch are only available as streaming. This is a category that didn't exist. So if you count those I'm not sure there is a real drop.
The top budgets do tend to grow. I think that has more to do with less than well equipped executives needing to claim something they have is bigger than the next guy. It certainly doesn't have to do with quality. The online film/series have shown you can bring huge quality to the screen for a small fraction of what a "Hollywood" blockbuster would spend. If you compare say "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers", both are really good and very immersive solid shows. The later series was made for what the former probably spent on one day of shooting.
I was fond of saying the best film I saw recently was a TV show. Though "TV" is not really accurate anymore.
Anyway I don't think the industry is really shrinking because there is a huge hunger for quality content. I do think the paradyme is changing though. In the late 90's I told everyone around that the minute they figured out delivery film as film would disappear faster than vinyl LP's. I even invested in a company I thought was going to really capitalize on that change. I was more right than I thought except that I'm not sure where the big money was made (it wasn't the company I invested in). In the US we are over 80% digital projection. It saved the big studios a bunch of $. But it doesn't look like they got smart about using that windfall to adapt to the future. What this also opens up for all you small and smaller filmmakers is that you can SELF DISTRIBUTE. Or at lest go through alternate channels. When you had to be on 35mm film to get a big screen outside of a festival you HAD to go through studio distribution. Now all you have to do is get a theatre to plug in your hard-drive.
I haven't really seen this happen in a big way yet but I will be surprised if it doesn't in the next five to ten years. Skipping the studios and the distributors means you can actually make money on a small film. The only person I know really doing this right now is Edward Burns, but it will catch on.
That trend will open up potentially a lot of jobs. You are not going to make money producing what appears 90% of the time in small film festivals. You will need a decent script, and decent acting, and you will absolutely need decent production and post sound.
And because of equipment "democratization" you will not need to be tied to a production capitol like LA or NYC. The centers will still be busy with what they have been doing but I suspect that what will happen is a rebirth of the B films and independent producers that had their heyday in the fifties.
On SD card location. It looks like there is a door between the mics. This would be a logical access place since you could get to it even when mounted to the camera.
I agree SD and especially Nagra are not particularly interested in the no budget market. For one thing once you start in the consumer market you have to deal with the very fickle consumer gear buyers. They are always looking for the new "XX killer" (name your brand leader). Case in point the discussion of the 60D being "obsolete" because there was a new model. That market expects a new model with more features and a lower price at least once a year. A really big company that make most of there stuff with injected plastic molds and robot assembly lines can do that, a small company with machined metal cases and non robotic assembly lines can't.
The professional market values on quality and dependability, the consumer market values on what is "new and trendy". You can sell a MixPre for more because it's working life is decades. I've gone through six phones since I got the MixPre (and two Palm's). I can drive my car over the MixPre and expect it to work afterword, I wouldn't try that with any consumer gear.
As to "low budget" films. You have to define terms before you use them to make them meaningful. In Hollywood terms low budget (in the 90's anyway) meant a budget under 30 million. A supper low budget independent film like My Big Fat Greek Wedding cost a bit over five million to shoot and another five to market.
On the Mini-Indi scale $30,000 to about $1,000,000 I think there has been an expansion. What you can make today for $100,000 is far more polished than was possible fifteen years ago. In the tier above that I think you may be right that fewer films are being made but some of that is because there is an entirely new market that has opened up. The extended film/ TV series really didn't exist. Now you have Hulu, Netflix, HBO, AMC, Amazon, etc all creating these new shows that kind of cross the line from film to TV. And a bunch are only available as streaming. This is a category that didn't exist. So if you count those I'm not sure there is a real drop.
The top budgets do tend to grow. I think that has more to do with less than well equipped executives needing to claim something they have is bigger than the next guy. It certainly doesn't have to do with quality. The online film/series have shown you can bring huge quality to the screen for a small fraction of what a "Hollywood" blockbuster would spend. If you compare say "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers", both are really good and very immersive solid shows. The later series was made for what the former probably spent on one day of shooting.
I was fond of saying the best film I saw recently was a TV show. Though "TV" is not really accurate anymore.
Anyway I don't think the industry is really shrinking because there is a huge hunger for quality content. I do think the paradyme is changing though. In the late 90's I told everyone around that the minute they figured out delivery film as film would disappear faster than vinyl LP's. I even invested in a company I thought was going to really capitalize on that change. I was more right than I thought except that I'm not sure where the big money was made (it wasn't the company I invested in). In the US we are over 80% digital projection. It saved the big studios a bunch of $. But it doesn't look like they got smart about using that windfall to adapt to the future. What this also opens up for all you small and smaller filmmakers is that you can SELF DISTRIBUTE. Or at lest go through alternate channels. When you had to be on 35mm film to get a big screen outside of a festival you HAD to go through studio distribution. Now all you have to do is get a theatre to plug in your hard-drive.
I haven't really seen this happen in a big way yet but I will be surprised if it doesn't in the next five to ten years. Skipping the studios and the distributors means you can actually make money on a small film. The only person I know really doing this right now is Edward Burns, but it will catch on.
That trend will open up potentially a lot of jobs. You are not going to make money producing what appears 90% of the time in small film festivals. You will need a decent script, and decent acting, and you will absolutely need decent production and post sound.
And because of equipment "democratization" you will not need to be tied to a production capitol like LA or NYC. The centers will still be busy with what they have been doing but I suspect that what will happen is a rebirth of the B films and independent producers that had their heyday in the fifties.
On SD card location. It looks like there is a door between the mics. This would be a logical access place since you could get to it even when mounted to the camera.