T2i or 5d --thoughts before buying?

barry,cinema crop factor should not be applied to 16mm movies, they are shot with lenses made for 16mm camera,its not the same as crop.This is misleading and misinformation,you cant just say that 2x crop of 25mm is like 50mm lens.
Focus distance and perspective is different,crop factor comparing is wrong.
I dont have problem with smaller sensor and fast lens made for this sensor, i just dont like comparing crop factors.
 
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bwwd, you're incorrect -- the CCF is absolutely appropriate for 16mm films. Modern 16mm film cameras have PL-mount lenses and can take the exact same cinema lenses that 35mm cameras use. There is no difference whatsoever between a 7D taking a full-frame Nikon lens (and using a "crop factor") and a 16mm camera taking a 35mm cine lens (and using a "crop factor").

To assert that a 16mm camera uses its own lenses, is no different than saying a 7D uses EF-S lenses.

The end result is that "a millimeter is a millimeter is a millimeter". A 50mm lens on a VistaVision camera can also be put on a 16mm movie camera. A 50mm lens made for a VistaVision camera will, when mounted on that 16mm camera, look exactly the same as a 50mm lens made for a 16mm movie camera.

That's really the whole point of the "crop factor".
 
Okay, back on the whole "crop factor" -- the thing that a crop factor tries to equalize is the FIELD OF VIEW ONLY. bwwd is correct in saying that it's not a direct comparison, because perspective isn't the same. But that isn't necessarily the fault of the crop factor, as much as it is the fault of people who don't understand what the crop factor really is, and they're trying to read more into it than it actually says.
 
OK and what about minimum focusing distance with lenses made for 16mm camera with the same FOV as cropped 50mm full frame lens on 16mm cam.Are they exactly the same ? OR lenses made for 16mm cameras have shifted focusing distance so its not that extremely close as cropped full frame lens ?
OK the question is, why when i see movies then i can see that its quite wide and person is from knees to top of the head and there is still much blur behind them(with lenses that i have you cant do that because youre hitting infinity and everything is in focus when person is so far from camera),its because long focus throw ? Are cinema lenses made differently with shifted focus throw ? So you have better control over depth of field because you dont have useless macro close focusing and its shifted to focus at greater distances from camera? Is it even possible to shift focusing so you dont have macro close focus but instead have longer focusing distance until you hit infinity?
When minimum focus distance is far away from cam then maximum focus distance is more away from camera too ? Bcause some lenses focus too close and i dont like that,i would like to put person far from cam and still have blur behind them on wide lenses.
 
OK here is what i wanted to show:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/550/zxaschowek2.jpg
this lens is wide and why background is oit of focus when its so far ? It should be in focus and on infinity with such wide lens,how is this possible ? Cinema lenses have shifted focus distance or what ? So things far in the background can be out of focus too ?
I dare anyone to frame a car like that with wide lens and still have some out of focus blur in far background.
Which slr lenses have similar focus ability to throw background which is so far out of focus and fill frame with whole car ?
Or here:
how far he is and lens is wide ,but far background is out of focus, its not possible with SLR wide lenses which i have because when you get fovcus on him you will be on infinity.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5301/asdaschowek3.jpg
 
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There's nothing different about the DOF properties between an SLR lens and a cinema lens. There can be differences in how close it could focus, or how long the focus travel is, but the actual range of in-focus to out-of-focus will be the same, from lens to lens. That doesn't change.

I don't know what lens that was shot with, but if it was shot on something like a T1.3 lens, wide open, even on a wide lens like an 18mm, the depth of field is pretty short. Just to throw out some ballpark numbers, assume that the camera is 15 feet away from the subject. On a 35mm movie camera, at f/1.4, focused at 15 feet, the entire depth of field would range from 10 feet to 30 feet. Anything closer than 10' would be out of focus, and anything further than 30 feet would be out of focus.

You could get the exact same results on a 7D or T2i, assuming you could find an 18mm f/1.4 lens. On a GH1, you'd have to use a 15mm lens but you could get the same look.
 
It exists in cinema, of course, but at an incredibly higher price point than still-camera lenses would cost.

And the smaller the format, the easier it is to get such a lens; I think Red's making one for their 2/3" camera that'll cost about $1,000. But for a new cinema lens that's 18mm f/1.4, it's about 20x more expensive. For example, here's the new Cooke 18mm t1.4, at $21,750:
http://www.zgc.com/webstore.nsf/allbydocid/TL993FPAM

So it can be done, but not at a price point that any SLR shooter would pay, so ... it remains the province of cinema lenses.

Red has an 18mm/f1.8 lens. It'd be a little bit deeper depth of field, but not much. And that one's only $4,750.
 
Thanks much to all of you. I popped for the T2i today, with a slightly longer and slightly better zoom lens on it. (18-135mm F3.5 -5.6) moderately less bad than the standard kit lens, but will round out a longer lens need after I end up buying the more wide angle quality canon lens somewhere down the road (prefer the L series, but don't want to spend the $ right now).

First take on this, after a few hours shooting, is, yep it's a DSLR and ergonomically has a lot to learn from video cameras. But, DOF and IS is fabulous, even on this marginally good lens. First video was in full sun, late in day, and the highlights overexposed a wee bit. But I didn't even open the book. Just went with auto exposure everything. So I'm sure there will be more.

IS really is spectacular. I can't believe I can get the crispness from lower light situations without noticeable blur.

The viewfinder situation and menus will take some getting used to, but all in all it's quite nice.

I'm not yet ready to upload anything worth seeing on Vimeo at full MOV file format, so here's a low light, non color corrected, window lit late day hand held with IS zoomed in to 50mm shot of my elderly father. I've taken this down from 6 MBs to 172kb. Shows as ISO 3200 at 5.6 and 1/125th of a second. Not cropped.

T2iShots
dad%20May%202010.jpg


The thing that really got interesting here is the sharpness at handheld at this low light level achieved with the IS. I could never have done this on 35mm film in the old days. Just not possible, as a color shot would have taken me down into 1/60th or less. Quite remarkable.

I think this will do DOF just fine for my needs. I'll let you know when I have something to show with it.
 
f64manray said:
Say it's VistaVision, baby. It sounds so much cooler.




Ahh yes, it's the House one. It's good to be one of the cool kids. :-)
Click to expand...

For real. Just the 5D. People are going wacko when they see it. The camera, not the footage.

Been havin a blast with it.
 
Just my 2c, but I've been using a T2i with my HMC150 for the last month now and think they go together very well for the money.
 
After picking up the Canon T2i I did some video shooting to show of it's DOF and test its' f3.5 18 to 130 mm lens. All in all, I like the results.
It has good enough low light ability, and it also has great sharpness and color balance. For a DSLR camera under $1000 it has spectacular video capability.

http://www.vimeo.com/12256123

The tests of MOV vs. AVI were done for editing purposes. If you use Windows, you would prefer to edit in AVI by Neoscene.

I recommend allowing the HD footage to download before playing. Start by clicking the link, then waiting while the gray bar downloads it all. I didn't have a decent tripod on my at this location. You need one. I don't usually use Vimeo so that's why I've only got a few things on it.
 
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