T2i or 5d --thoughts before buying?

8string

8string

Well-known member
I'm thinking of adding a DSLR to my toolkit (which includes a HMC150) specifically for getting the DOF when needed. I've read some solid reviews of the T2i, I usually shoot at 720/24 so it seems like a natural to look at either of these Canons. while I know the full frame will be great, how much less great is the T2i for those of you who have compared them both side by side?

I don't do that much still work anymore, planning to stay in video and just like the variety of tricks with DOF that I just can't get on the 150 (which I love by the way).

While I could pay the price for the 5d, the majority of my work is small screen, to home video screen. I don't usually end up on a large screen where anyone cares. Not trying to beat Avatar at the box office.

I also haven't yet 'settled' on FCP vs Vegas vs....using FCP primarily now, hate it, love Vegas' ease of use for the lightweight documentaries I shoot. And would probably transcode the MOV files in Vegas just cause I like buying hard drives.

I'm not into religious wars, don't expect the EOS to outperform a Red (G), just want a bit more of that old time DOFeeling now and then...

thoughts by those in the know? 18MP vs 21? Full Frame vs. APS-C?
 
Before you even go any further, What is your budget (have you thought about the lens(es) ff, matte box, shoulder support, monitor, batteries, cards etc? Do you plan on using this camera as a cu cam only ie... just for tele or shallow dof shots?

Give us more info, this has the makings of a thread war if you ask this broad a question. We need to know exactly what you plan on doing with the rig and how much you realisticly have to spend before anyone can give you a useful answer.

:laugh:-Adam
 
You might want to breeze over the Philip Bloom's blog (sorry don't have the URL) and read his comparison to the 5D Mark II and 7D, since video wise the 7D and T2i are virtually identical.

He gives a pretty good pros and cons breakdown...

There is also an update because at the time of the original blog the 5D Mark II only shot true 30p (as opposed to 29.97) and no 24p (or more acurately 23.97).

The long and the short of it is, if you want to go up to 60p the 7D or in your case T2i might be a better choice.

If you want more latitude with your image the 5D Mark II would be the way to go.
 
The main difference in video quality that you're going to be facing is that the 5D is capable of much shallower DOF than the t2i is. If you're shopping primarily for a shallow-DOF camera, that might be a pretty big consideration to you. Of course, the 5D is $1800 more expensive, so the decision of whether the that-much-shallower DOF is worth that-much-more-money is one that only you can make.
 
I have a HMC151 and a 550d (same as T2i) and my other half has a 5d so I may be able to give some insight for you.

I also shoot 720p (25/50p over here) which gives the 550d an edge over the 5d and the cost is another major factor. The kit lens on the 550d is also very handy although it's not going to give you very shallow DoF, it's still more than the HMC has to offer, and it is very light and has IS.

I also have a 30mm f/1.4 sigma lens which works great on the 550d and does provide very shallow DoF.

The DoF on the 5d is shallower with (for example) a 50mm f/1.4, which gives a similar field of view. However, the DoF can be too shallow some times with this combo. I think the 30mm on the 550d is enough for video IMO.

The 5d also has better low light performance, but then, even the 550d seems to be significantly better than the HMC.

In summary, I think the 5d is well worth the extra money if you are a pro photographer (my other half is). But for video use, there are pros and cons vs the 550d, so for most people I would recommend the 550d on the basis of the huge price difference.

One practical advantage of the 550d BTW is that it uses SD cards similar to your HMC.
 
If I had the money, my options would be:

GH-1 + PL Mount
7D + PL Mount
5D

If you can get the 5D, I'd say absolutely. Specifically because you can purchase cheaper yet excellent lenses that are in the F2.8 or F4 max aperture range and get great results.

Purchasing all 1.4's can get pricey.

Also, your widest lens really only needs to be like a 20 - 24 with the 5D, those aren't expensive. Versus needing to hunt down an 11-16mm Tokina which CAN be expensive.

Laslty, resale value of the 5D is at least going to be much higher than any of the others, your investment won't deplete as quickly.
 
You can get more shallow DOF with the 5D, but you can get PLENTY of shallow DOF with the 550D. Watch this Salton Sea video shot with the 550d.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pco4OmpYSQo

I would go for the 550d for video as it's much cheaper, the video is really good plus you get 720/60 which I don't believe the 5d has.

The cheaper SD cards are an advantage in terms of cost. CF cards are costly.
 
Quick question Barry Green.

When you compare the 7D/T2i to the GH1, I think you (correct me if I'm wrong) mentioned that the 7D/T2i only has slightly shallower DOF than the GH1. But when you compare the 7D/T21 to the 5D, you say that the DOF is much shallower.

Since the GH1 is a 2x crop, the 7D/T2i is a 1.6x crop when compared to the 5D, mathematically, wouldn't there be a bigger difference in the DOF between a GH1 and a 7D/550D; then between the 7D/550D and the 5D??

From what I have seen on video, it seems the 7D/550d can achieve considerably shallower DOF than a GH1.

Am I just seeing things? Or is there a mathematical answer to this?
 
thanks. These are all fine points. I've seen some 5d footage a friend did that did seem to be *too* shallow. Probably just needs time with the camera and picking the right lens.

For grins and giggles I ended up on Cinema5d.com, and spent much of the night reading the endless threadwar on the 7d, 5d and the 550d. Had no idea it was such a crazy debate! I was just innocently wondering about the differences. I simply lurked.

I must admit that the cost factor did weigh in. I have a shoulder support and monitor I use for the HMC 150, that could probably be used. Lens are a factor. I like good glass and personally love the 150's lens. Other than DOF it does everything I want.

It would be great to get some nice DOF for a low entry point, but as an ex-pro photographer ( a long time ago with Hasselblads, Canons, and 4x5), I was taken by the arguements about it not being "environmentally" sealed, like the 7d. Here in the Pacific NW, it rains and is very humid, *a lot*. Sort of made me pause.

While I respect Phil Bloom and his reviews, he shows some great DOF work, but it's really a day shoot. As I understand, he mainly shoots a 7d, and a Sony EX for his personal cameras. He just demos the new stuff and writes it up. So while it sold me on the capabilities of the 550d, I'm still wondering if I should just raise the right amount of money and get the pro camera. I never regretted the money I spent years back on the Hasselblad, nor the Canon. They were fine tools, capable of very special results.

In looking at both the Salton Sea video, and other stuff, including the wonderful demo footage by a team from Canon of a young girl cooking some stuff, it appears that I can get, to sort of answer my own question, the right DOF look with the 550d. But the issue Kholi mentions about lens costs are very interesting. I'll price the two out closely before making the decision. The issue of SD cards, which I have spent a good amount of money on is another point worth considering.

Thanks again for the feedback.
 
8string said:
thanks. These are all fine points. I've seen some 5d footage a friend did that did seem to be *too* shallow. Probably just needs time with the camera and picking the right lens.

For grins and giggles I ended up on Cinema5d.com, and spent much of the night reading the endless threadwar on the 7d, 5d and the 550d. Had no idea it was such a crazy debate! I was just innocently wondering about the differences. I simply lurked.

I must admit that the cost factor did weigh in. I have a shoulder support and monitor I use for the HMC 150, that could probably be used. Lens are a factor. I like good glass and personally love the 150's lens. Other than DOF it does everything I want.

It would be great to get some nice DOF for a low entry point, but as an ex-pro photographer ( a long time ago with Hasselblads, Canons, and 4x5), I was taken by the arguements about it not being "environmentally" sealed, like the 7d. Here in the Pacific NW, it rains and is very humid, *a lot*. Sort of made me pause.

While I respect Phil Bloom and his reviews, he shows some great DOF work, but it's really a day shoot. As I understand, he mainly shoots a 7d, and a Sony EX for his personal cameras. He just demos the new stuff and writes it up. So while it sold me on the capabilities of the 550d, I'm still wondering if I should just raise the right amount of money and get the pro camera. I never regretted the money I spent years back on the Hasselblad, nor the Canon. They were fine tools, capable of very special results.

In looking at both the Salton Sea video, and other stuff, including the wonderful demo footage by a team from Canon of a young girl cooking some stuff, it appears that I can get, to sort of answer my own question, the right DOF look with the 550d. But the issue Kholi mentions about lens costs are very interesting. I'll price the two out closely before making the decision. The issue of SD cards, which I have spent a good amount of money on is another point worth considering.

Thanks again for the feedback.
Click to expand...

Quite an intelligent approach to your considerations. There would be so much less turmoil if people approach it this way.

Indeed, cost is a factor. At the same time, there's a reason why one thing may cost less than another. I always forget about weather sealing, but for people who work with gear in professional environments, that means there's a chance to be caught in an environment that can be dangerous to the internals of a camera.

Condensation and, my personal favorite, sand or dust! Shooting at Vasquez rocks, our West Fest entry, there was sand EVERYWHERE afterward. And, that wasn't limited to just in my shoes, but within the crevices of the camera body. Knowing that it was sealed in a way that would only see me cleaning the OLPF, etc, makes me feel safe about doing these sorts of things.


One major thing that I've come to learn, while initially against the 5D and the vistavision-esque FOV, is that it can be beneficial to the operation in many ways. As mentioned: Lens selection.

Recently, watching both the final installment of Harry Potter and the Tron Trailer, I've become enamored with the look of wide and shallow. Not TOO shallow, but well composed shots that you see in the Tron Trailer often fooled me for being 65mm material.

So, going along with that, it just sort of fits into a style I want to cultivate. And being able to purchase a 28/2.8 Zeiss C/Y lens as my widest (cost:250.00) versus an 11-16/2.8 Tokina (cost:700) is a major consideration. Futhermore, for the shots that you want the effect of a rather shallow field, 2.8 is MORE than enough.

Even shooting a wide aperture of F4 opens up a world of interesting lens choices, particularly the ones that people wouldn't dare look at because of their slower max aperture.

Imagine being able to use an old Takumar lens (F3.4) wide open and getting the natural warm look of Super Takumar glass in your original image. It makes it look vintage and very creamy.

Good luck on the hunt, though! Whatever you get, I'm sure you'll have thought about it thoroughly and made the best decision for your style and needs.

Fun stuff, man.
 
gene_can_sing said:
Quick question Barry Green.

When you compare the 7D/T2i to the GH1, I think you (correct me if I'm wrong) mentioned that the 7D/T2i only has slightly shallower DOF than the GH1. But when you compare the 7D/T21 to the 5D, you say that the DOF is much shallower.

Since the GH1 is a 2x crop, the 7D/T2i is a 1.6x crop when compared to the 5D, mathematically, wouldn't there be a bigger difference in the DOF between a GH1 and a 7D/550D; then between the 7D/550D and the 5D??

From what I have seen on video, it seems the 7D/550d can achieve considerably shallower DOF than a GH1.

Am I just seeing things? Or is there a mathematical answer to this?
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a simple mathematical answer to this:

GH1 = 2x crop
550d/7d = 1.6x crop
5dmkii = 1x crop

2 - 1.6 = 0.4x crop difference from GH1 to 550d.
1.6 - 1 = 0.6x crop difference from 550d to 5dkmii.

So there is a bigger difference between the 5d and 550d than the 550d and GH1.

Any of these camera are capable of very shallow DoF but the 5d will also allow it with wider lenses and/or slower lenses.

Also when considering lenses, it can actually work out cheaper to get super wide lenses for the 550d. There are plenty of 10mm lenses for APS-C cameras, but it's alot harder to find a 16mm lens for a full-frame camera. Using the same lenses, the 5d will always be wider but your selection of lenses is not as wide.
 
deltoidjohn said:
Also when considering lenses, it can actually work out cheaper to get super wide lenses for the 550d. There are plenty of 10mm lenses for APS-C cameras, but it's alot harder to find a 16mm lens for a full-frame camera. Using the same lenses, the 5d will always be wider but your selection of lenses is not as wide.
Click to expand...


That's generally because 20mm or slightly greater is much wider than any photographer, additionally cinematographer, would ever choose due to wide angle anomalies.

A 16mm on the 5D is like shooting with an 8mm on a 35mm Motion Picture camera. That's sort of insane, although useful to some.

The closest to a flat field reproduction at an affordable price, to me, is the Tokina 11-16/2.8.

Which also happens to cover FullFrame at the 16mm end.
 
Yeah I know it's not a length you'd use very often except for sepcial purposes but I just thought I'd point out that, despite what many people say, it's not necassarily easier to find wide lenses for the 5d just because it has no crop factor.

Personally I love the look of super wide lenses and I wish I could find more situations to use them! They may not be flattering but for anything not containing close-ups of people it can be really useful.
 
Kholi said:
I always forget about weather sealing
Click to expand...

I guess a weather sealed 5d caught in a big downpour for a while will bust

Safer is to shoot on a T2i and have a spare one tucked away in a peli

Ive always thought two cheap cameras are more reliable than one expensive one

S
 
Kholi said:
If I had the money, my options would be:



If you can get the 5D, I'd say absolutely. Specifically because you can purchase cheaper yet excellent lenses that are in the F2.8 or F4 max aperture range and get great results.

Also, your widest lens really only needs to be like a 20 - 24 with the 5D, those aren't expensive. Versus needing to hunt down an 11-16mm Tokina which CAN be expensive.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the reason I am switching from GH1 to 5D. We already have a 7D, but I want to go wide. and 2.8 is plenty on the 5D it really is the biggest plus for me in this thread.

I'm just buying a 24-70 and 70-200 I still have my fast 50. I hopefully don't have to worry about buying stuff for a while with this thing I'd be happy enough to just shoot. I mean had the 7D and it's done me well, so I've already hit roll. I say go for the 5D as a nice contrast to the HMC, I like mixing between cameras it creates interesting moods.

(I got so far as Kholi's post, still reading if I missed anything)
 
This has nothing to do with the technical, but I swear is happening.

There are a lot of boys and girls in the movie making scene here in leb. Not all are DP's DIT all this, but there's a general idea. Yet the ppl that don't know much have one thing to say at my getting a 5D.

'It's sexy.' 'you're getting the real one, the best one' 'that's hot' 'that's the house one'

I gave up tryin to get it thru everyone's head that i was using it ALONGSIDE an aps-c for effect, but damn. Felt nice third time round I'm almost gonna show this thing off.

Canon have marketed (dunno if on purpose) this product to be positioned as the 'flagship' in everyone's mind outside a technical aspect coz of the places its been used, it's high-er price tag, and the 'imax-ish-in-yer-pocket' deal. I just have to say full-frame baby when someone asks me and it's like that's all I have to say. No one realizes, and it seems to be ok.

Aside from the technical pluses and minuses, and also playin out into the resale value, one can argue that it's '5D-ness' (which kinda doesn't make sense) is a plus in and of itself.

Am I making sense? I mean I won't charge more cause it's a 5D but I ahve been told that I can and some others are expecting me to charge at least a coupla hundred bucks more to go out with this thing.

These are the same people you realize that think the 5D mark ii is 'better' than a videocamera, they think that it's the 'same' as red but by canon, and yet they're the ones who hire, at least here.

You're way cool about pickin a piece of gear. If you're getting commercial with it, outside a technical standpoint, for funsies consider it's 5D-ness, it's aura as a product to the consumer paying for your services. I dunno about where you are but here, outside the DP circle, it can increase the hell out of your production value. From a purely status-symbol point of view.

I for one am not in it for the money or the fame, I got a small flat and the food's good in town, I barely drink, and generally calm. So I'm not raising my prices now that I'm going 5D, cause that would mess with several points I try to make thru my work, one being that a camera is a camera, they go out for the same, you pay for me.

Still, as long as it doesn't mess with that, I'm ok with feeling like hot sh-- with this thing strapped to my shoulder. Haven't had that happen to me with a piece of gear since my first macbook g4.

It is fun. But seriously, to the consumer outside the DP circle, the 5D has a marketed aura of 'king'. If I had infinite funding, I would straight up go for a 1DmkIV , sees in the dark, halfway between FF and APS-C, slo-mo like the 7D, and so much less jelly.
 
I got a t2i to go along with my 2 hmc 150s. I decided to save money on the t2i and consider it just an ineterim camera because of all the improvements in new cameras that will be coming out. I'm very interested in the AF-100 and the GH-2.
 
Barry_Green said:
The main difference in video quality that you're going to be facing is that the 5D is capable of much shallower DOF than the t2i is. If you're shopping primarily for a shallow-DOF camera, that might be a pretty big consideration to you. Of course, the 5D is $1800 more expensive, so the decision of whether the that-much-shallower DOF is worth that-much-more-money is one that only you can make.
Click to expand...

So does that mean in terms of DOF, if you're shooting at night the same scene, same lens, same fstop, with a T2i and 5D, it's better to shoot with a T2i because it will be capable of deeper focus? I know there are still a lot of variables there, but lets say you wanted to have as much in focus as possible with very limited lighting.
 
I think the way you shoot will be the big determining factor. If you shoot wide angle then the 5D is your answer as wide angle lenses are easier to find and cheaper. However, if you shoot documentaries and need faster telephoto, then the T2i or 7D is your answer.
 
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