adkimery
Veteran
Shane Ross posted about some of the stuff he saw at IBC including some info on the EX. Here is an interesting tidbit I hadn't heard before,
-A
Shane Ross' Blog said:
-A
Sony XDCAM EX
- Thread starter LuckyStudio 13
- Start date
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
The XDcam codec that is current, (35mbit/s) is excellent. I would assume that the 35mbit/s 1920x1080 will be just as good and more then enough for 99% of the people on this board.
Grug
Veteran
It'll be very interesting to see how the footage it churns out handles. For videography/event stuff it sounds like it will be terrific. For commercials/narrative stuff that people like to push around a lot more in post it might be a different beast all together.
And I can't imagine there being much advantage to going the XDCAM EX + SDI Recording Box route over just buying something like an HPX500 in the first place.
But I suppose that's all neither here nor there, just have to wait and see (damnit!).
And I can't imagine there being much advantage to going the XDCAM EX + SDI Recording Box route over just buying something like an HPX500 in the first place.
But I suppose that's all neither here nor there, just have to wait and see (damnit!).
Nik Manning
Well-known member
Ok Shane Ross Posted on his blog that the XDCAM EX will cost $4000!
"The camera will cost $4000. Yep...you read right...$4000. And the 16GB cards will go for under $1000. Two of them and the camera will set you back under $6000. CHEAPER than the HVX-200."
Well well the plot thickens. If this is the case it will be a best seller for Sony.
"The camera will cost $4000. Yep...you read right...$4000. And the 16GB cards will go for under $1000. Two of them and the camera will set you back under $6000. CHEAPER than the HVX-200."
Well well the plot thickens. If this is the case it will be a best seller for Sony.
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
More in depth reviews here.
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/cameras/revfeat/first_look_xdcam_ex/index.html
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/cameras/revfeat/first_look_xdcam_ex/index.html
Nik Manning
Well-known member
Dxmetal that review doesn't say anything about the cam being $4000 or it recording 50Mbs. I hope Shane is right and wasn't just referencing our dream cam.
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
Couple of notable info regarding the Cam from a new review.
"Key features: 3-CMOS comprising 2.2-megapixel sensors with 1920x1080 pixels, full 1920x1080p/i and 1280x720p recording at 35Mpbs including 24p and 50Hz/60Hz field rates, dual-mechanism 14X Fujinon zoom with mechanical focus and electronic focus, a true iris ring marked in f/stops, HD-SDI output, and flash-memory recording using PCI Express and compact ExpressCard/34"
"This is the first palm-held camcorder to emerge from Sony’s Atsugi, Japan, factory, renowned for its Digital Betacam, HDCAM, HDW-F900, HDC-F950, and F23 lines. Previous Handycam-style camcorders have come from Sony’s factory at Shinagawa, Japan, creator of consumer and prosumer camcorders such as DSR-PD170s, HVR-A1Us, and HVR-Z1Us. As a result, present and future XDCAM EX camcorders will carry a CineAlta marque on the outside and Atsugi DNA on the inside."
"The good news is that despite a larger 1/2in. sensor size, the 14X Fujinon’s horizontal angle of view is wider than that of popular 1/3in. HDV camcorders (including Sony’s own Z1) and a tad wider than Panasonic’s 1/3in. AG-HVX200, the current champ. For those in need of an even wider angle, Sony has created a 0.8X screw-in wide-angle adapter with a unique attribute: The EX1 digitally corrects for its chromatic aberrations (similar to Panasonic’s Chromatic Aberration Compensation [CAC] function for 2/3in. lenses"
"Where the 14X Fujinon leaps from the pack is its novel mechanical design, with independent focus, zoom, and iris rings. As with any other pro video camera, the zoom ring is marked in millimeter focal lengths and the iris in f/stops. But wait: When was the last time you saw an f/stop ring on an all-in-one camcorder? (Answer: never.) This is the first clue we’re not in Kansas anymore. The second clue is that the focus ring is marked in both feet and meters. The third clue is that the zoom and iris rings are geared externally like a conventional B4 mount zoom, which is how they’re motorized. Now notice that the focus ring, which has a rubber surface for gripping, slides fore and aft. Slide it towards the lens shade to activate either autofocus or servo manual focus (where the focus ring spins endlessly). Alternatively, slide the focus ring backward towards the viewfinder to achieve something more familiar to professionals: a meshed-gear mechanical focus with meaningful feet/meter markings. Yes, remarkably enough, the Fujinon 14X has two separate mechanisms for focus control. Yet because it’s a built-in lens, there’s no need for backfocus adjustment. Ever"
"Sony and Fujinon’s collaboration on the EX1 has produced another camcorder first: an active depth-of-field display along the bottom of the viewfinder. As focus, zoom, and iris rings are adjusted, you can watch depth-of-field dynamically shrink or grow against a distance scale. This function is assignable to a user button, so you can turn it on or off at will."
"The screen is an all-new transmissive/reflective hybrid LCD (works backlit or by reflection in bright sunlight). While the Z1’s hybrid LCD boasted 250,000 pixels, the EX1’s displays a whopping 921,600. Like the Z1 and V1, the EX1 provides an expanded focus function that magnifies the center of the image about 2X. The EX1 goes a step beyond, however, matching the 2X magnification pixel-per-pixel to the LCD’s native resolution to create a true 1:1 pixel display, available during recording for on-the-fly focus checks—a Handycam first. (Panasonic’s HVX200 got there already). At the rear of the EX1’s handle is a 0.54in., 252,000-pixel color LCD viewfinder like that of the V1. Notably, both LCD and viewfinder display a full HD raster. There is no underscan or overscan in the EX1"
" EX1 provides in addition to four standard preset gamma curves, four CINE Gamma curves identical to those in the F330/350 and, for that matter, F900R and F23. (Where they’re known as HyperGamma curves 1-4. For some reason, the ordering is scrambled in the F330/350 and EX1. CINE1 with a 108-percent white clip is the same as HyperGamma 4. Regardless of label, however, these are useful tools for finessing delicate highlight and reluctant shadow detail into view.) Just like XDCAM HD’s 1080-only F350 disc camcorder, EX1 offers over- and undercranking, which Sony calls Slow & Quick Motion. Except that EX1 does it better. Where F350 offers 4fps to 60fps in one-frame increments with reduced vertical resolution from 31fps to 60fps, the EX1 offers 1fps to 60fps in one-frame increments in 720p, and 1fps to 30fps in 1080p, with no resolution penalty at higher frame rates. In addition, EX1 borrows a page from the F23 (taken in turn from film cameras): “shutter angle” can be set in Slow & Quick motion to adjust dynamic resolution—exposure time of each frame—to reduce blur or soften flicker effect. The reverse function of this—shutter angles larger than 360 degrees, for a blurred, streaked, or ghosted effect—is available in EX1 as Slow Shutter, which is expressed in terms of “frame-accumulation periods” of two to eight frames, 16 frames, 32 frames, and 64 frames (same as F330/350)."
"The EX1’s imaging engine is the Exmor Full-HD sensor, another audacious CMOS technology from Sony (hot on the heels of the V1’s innovative ClearVid CMOS sensors with their 45-degree angled pixels). Comparing EX1’s Exmor CMOS sensors to the F330/350’s 1/2in. HD Power HAD CCDs underscores what makes them special. Each Exmor CMOS has a density of 2.2 megapixels (1920 x 1080) compared to the Power HAD CCD’s 1.56 megapixels (1440 x 1080). The EX1’s sensitivity at 2000 lux is rated f/10 compared to the F330/350’s f/9 (EX1 wins by a fraction of a stop). Both camera systems share a superb 54 dB S/N. While Power HAD CCDs tout a low vertical smear level of -120 dB, remarkable for an IT sensor, Exmor, being CMOS, has no vertical smear.
As indicated above, Exmor CMOS sensors are progressive/interlaced switchable. All images originate as 1920x1080. When 720p is required, Exmor captures at 1080p—in effect, oversampling—then downsamples to 720p prior to signal processing and MPEG2 encoding. In this manner EX1 lays claim to both native 1080 and 720."
"Additional focusing aids include peaking in four flavors—white, red, yellow, or blue—and a new intelligent mode called MF Assist, which supports electronic manual focusing. As you turn the focus ring to bring an object or area of detail into rough focus, MF Assist locks onto the nearly-focused object and takes over to ensure perfect focus."
"Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 reportedly already handles EX1’s MP4 files with aplomb—drop ‘n’ drag style—ditto Canopus Edius Pro. Apple Final Cut Pro 6 (FCP) users will want to download an upcoming FCP plug-in called XDCAM Transfer 2.0 from Sony. Vegas 8 may require a rewrapping of MP4 files to MXF using Sony’s new Clip Browser, a free software program (Windows and Mac versions!) that Sony is bundling with EX1. In addition to MP4-MXF conversion, Clip Browser also provides instant viewing and copying of native MP4 clips. Avid Xpress? Currently, an editor can use Sony's Clip Browser software to view and select a clip, then select Export to MXF. The application then re-wraps the media into an MXF file for import to the Avid editor."
"EX1 doesn’t record DVCAM. Nor can it output DV of any sort. On the fly, it can convert HD to SD through SD-HDI or analog component cables, adding letterboxing if desired. That’s it as far as standard definition is concerned. When recording at 25Mbps (called SP mode), format choices are further limited to 1440x1080 and 60i, 50i, or 24p—in other words, HDV. (It is possible to parallel-record HDV to both SxS and an external hard disk drive at the same time.) Put another way, all 25Mbps is recorded as either 60i or 50i, which in the case of 24p requires addition of standard 3:2 pulldown. In contrast, 35Mbps (called HQ for high quality) is recorded as native 24p, 25p, 30p, 50i/p, or 60i/p. HD-SDI output of these native frame rates, however, similarly requires transport as 60i or 50i with 3:2 pulldown where necessary."
"There is however an ExpressCard/34 version that interfaces internally over USB 2.0 instead of PCI Express. It looks identical to the PCI Express version, but according to Sony, its reduced throughput is not suitable to XDCAM EX. For this reason and others, Sony requires, for now, use of ExpressCard/34 cards certified by Sony or SanDisk for XDCAM EX. They’ll be marketed by both companies under the logo SxS PRO."
"Sony even adds a few wrinkles of its own: file names that can be preset, a Rec Review handgrip button for confidence playback at the end of a take (programmable for two seconds, 10 seconds, or an entire clip), the ability to mix 1920x1080, 1440x1080, and 1280x720 clips, both progressive and interlace, at various timebase frame rates on a single SxS Pro card."
"Key features: 3-CMOS comprising 2.2-megapixel sensors with 1920x1080 pixels, full 1920x1080p/i and 1280x720p recording at 35Mpbs including 24p and 50Hz/60Hz field rates, dual-mechanism 14X Fujinon zoom with mechanical focus and electronic focus, a true iris ring marked in f/stops, HD-SDI output, and flash-memory recording using PCI Express and compact ExpressCard/34"
"This is the first palm-held camcorder to emerge from Sony’s Atsugi, Japan, factory, renowned for its Digital Betacam, HDCAM, HDW-F900, HDC-F950, and F23 lines. Previous Handycam-style camcorders have come from Sony’s factory at Shinagawa, Japan, creator of consumer and prosumer camcorders such as DSR-PD170s, HVR-A1Us, and HVR-Z1Us. As a result, present and future XDCAM EX camcorders will carry a CineAlta marque on the outside and Atsugi DNA on the inside."
"The good news is that despite a larger 1/2in. sensor size, the 14X Fujinon’s horizontal angle of view is wider than that of popular 1/3in. HDV camcorders (including Sony’s own Z1) and a tad wider than Panasonic’s 1/3in. AG-HVX200, the current champ. For those in need of an even wider angle, Sony has created a 0.8X screw-in wide-angle adapter with a unique attribute: The EX1 digitally corrects for its chromatic aberrations (similar to Panasonic’s Chromatic Aberration Compensation [CAC] function for 2/3in. lenses"
"Where the 14X Fujinon leaps from the pack is its novel mechanical design, with independent focus, zoom, and iris rings. As with any other pro video camera, the zoom ring is marked in millimeter focal lengths and the iris in f/stops. But wait: When was the last time you saw an f/stop ring on an all-in-one camcorder? (Answer: never.) This is the first clue we’re not in Kansas anymore. The second clue is that the focus ring is marked in both feet and meters. The third clue is that the zoom and iris rings are geared externally like a conventional B4 mount zoom, which is how they’re motorized. Now notice that the focus ring, which has a rubber surface for gripping, slides fore and aft. Slide it towards the lens shade to activate either autofocus or servo manual focus (where the focus ring spins endlessly). Alternatively, slide the focus ring backward towards the viewfinder to achieve something more familiar to professionals: a meshed-gear mechanical focus with meaningful feet/meter markings. Yes, remarkably enough, the Fujinon 14X has two separate mechanisms for focus control. Yet because it’s a built-in lens, there’s no need for backfocus adjustment. Ever"
"Sony and Fujinon’s collaboration on the EX1 has produced another camcorder first: an active depth-of-field display along the bottom of the viewfinder. As focus, zoom, and iris rings are adjusted, you can watch depth-of-field dynamically shrink or grow against a distance scale. This function is assignable to a user button, so you can turn it on or off at will."
"The screen is an all-new transmissive/reflective hybrid LCD (works backlit or by reflection in bright sunlight). While the Z1’s hybrid LCD boasted 250,000 pixels, the EX1’s displays a whopping 921,600. Like the Z1 and V1, the EX1 provides an expanded focus function that magnifies the center of the image about 2X. The EX1 goes a step beyond, however, matching the 2X magnification pixel-per-pixel to the LCD’s native resolution to create a true 1:1 pixel display, available during recording for on-the-fly focus checks—a Handycam first. (Panasonic’s HVX200 got there already). At the rear of the EX1’s handle is a 0.54in., 252,000-pixel color LCD viewfinder like that of the V1. Notably, both LCD and viewfinder display a full HD raster. There is no underscan or overscan in the EX1"
" EX1 provides in addition to four standard preset gamma curves, four CINE Gamma curves identical to those in the F330/350 and, for that matter, F900R and F23. (Where they’re known as HyperGamma curves 1-4. For some reason, the ordering is scrambled in the F330/350 and EX1. CINE1 with a 108-percent white clip is the same as HyperGamma 4. Regardless of label, however, these are useful tools for finessing delicate highlight and reluctant shadow detail into view.) Just like XDCAM HD’s 1080-only F350 disc camcorder, EX1 offers over- and undercranking, which Sony calls Slow & Quick Motion. Except that EX1 does it better. Where F350 offers 4fps to 60fps in one-frame increments with reduced vertical resolution from 31fps to 60fps, the EX1 offers 1fps to 60fps in one-frame increments in 720p, and 1fps to 30fps in 1080p, with no resolution penalty at higher frame rates. In addition, EX1 borrows a page from the F23 (taken in turn from film cameras): “shutter angle” can be set in Slow & Quick motion to adjust dynamic resolution—exposure time of each frame—to reduce blur or soften flicker effect. The reverse function of this—shutter angles larger than 360 degrees, for a blurred, streaked, or ghosted effect—is available in EX1 as Slow Shutter, which is expressed in terms of “frame-accumulation periods” of two to eight frames, 16 frames, 32 frames, and 64 frames (same as F330/350)."
"The EX1’s imaging engine is the Exmor Full-HD sensor, another audacious CMOS technology from Sony (hot on the heels of the V1’s innovative ClearVid CMOS sensors with their 45-degree angled pixels). Comparing EX1’s Exmor CMOS sensors to the F330/350’s 1/2in. HD Power HAD CCDs underscores what makes them special. Each Exmor CMOS has a density of 2.2 megapixels (1920 x 1080) compared to the Power HAD CCD’s 1.56 megapixels (1440 x 1080). The EX1’s sensitivity at 2000 lux is rated f/10 compared to the F330/350’s f/9 (EX1 wins by a fraction of a stop). Both camera systems share a superb 54 dB S/N. While Power HAD CCDs tout a low vertical smear level of -120 dB, remarkable for an IT sensor, Exmor, being CMOS, has no vertical smear.
As indicated above, Exmor CMOS sensors are progressive/interlaced switchable. All images originate as 1920x1080. When 720p is required, Exmor captures at 1080p—in effect, oversampling—then downsamples to 720p prior to signal processing and MPEG2 encoding. In this manner EX1 lays claim to both native 1080 and 720."
"Additional focusing aids include peaking in four flavors—white, red, yellow, or blue—and a new intelligent mode called MF Assist, which supports electronic manual focusing. As you turn the focus ring to bring an object or area of detail into rough focus, MF Assist locks onto the nearly-focused object and takes over to ensure perfect focus."
"Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 reportedly already handles EX1’s MP4 files with aplomb—drop ‘n’ drag style—ditto Canopus Edius Pro. Apple Final Cut Pro 6 (FCP) users will want to download an upcoming FCP plug-in called XDCAM Transfer 2.0 from Sony. Vegas 8 may require a rewrapping of MP4 files to MXF using Sony’s new Clip Browser, a free software program (Windows and Mac versions!) that Sony is bundling with EX1. In addition to MP4-MXF conversion, Clip Browser also provides instant viewing and copying of native MP4 clips. Avid Xpress? Currently, an editor can use Sony's Clip Browser software to view and select a clip, then select Export to MXF. The application then re-wraps the media into an MXF file for import to the Avid editor."
"EX1 doesn’t record DVCAM. Nor can it output DV of any sort. On the fly, it can convert HD to SD through SD-HDI or analog component cables, adding letterboxing if desired. That’s it as far as standard definition is concerned. When recording at 25Mbps (called SP mode), format choices are further limited to 1440x1080 and 60i, 50i, or 24p—in other words, HDV. (It is possible to parallel-record HDV to both SxS and an external hard disk drive at the same time.) Put another way, all 25Mbps is recorded as either 60i or 50i, which in the case of 24p requires addition of standard 3:2 pulldown. In contrast, 35Mbps (called HQ for high quality) is recorded as native 24p, 25p, 30p, 50i/p, or 60i/p. HD-SDI output of these native frame rates, however, similarly requires transport as 60i or 50i with 3:2 pulldown where necessary."
"There is however an ExpressCard/34 version that interfaces internally over USB 2.0 instead of PCI Express. It looks identical to the PCI Express version, but according to Sony, its reduced throughput is not suitable to XDCAM EX. For this reason and others, Sony requires, for now, use of ExpressCard/34 cards certified by Sony or SanDisk for XDCAM EX. They’ll be marketed by both companies under the logo SxS PRO."
"Sony even adds a few wrinkles of its own: file names that can be preset, a Rec Review handgrip button for confidence playback at the end of a take (programmable for two seconds, 10 seconds, or an entire clip), the ability to mix 1920x1080, 1440x1080, and 1280x720 clips, both progressive and interlace, at various timebase frame rates on a single SxS Pro card."
It doesnt provide 50mbps 422. He got ALOT of stuff wrong ....
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
Nik,
There is no way in ___________ (insert your own $@#@#$$ here), that Sony will sell the EX for $4k.
That would be suicide for both the Z1 and V1. I speculate it is going to be MSRP 7999 with street pricing between $6.5 k - $7 k.
There is no way in ___________ (insert your own $@#@#$$ here), that Sony will sell the EX for $4k.
That would be suicide for both the Z1 and V1. I speculate it is going to be MSRP 7999 with street pricing between $6.5 k - $7 k.
Seems to be a few errors in that report, probably typos. He already made an edit that it's possible the price given is in Euro, which comes to $6000, not $4000. And he mentioned it recorded 50 Mbps when it does only 35.
Nik Manning
Well-known member
The thing is even in his comments he states that it records 50Mbps. He didn't just make it up. He got his info from somewhere. Maybe it is $6000 us and comes with 2 16 gb cards. That wouldn't kill the Z1 or V1 market. That would almost make sense. Surely the card is fast enough for 50Mbps. Maybe that is why Sony and Sandisk is making them. Maybe with third party cards you can only get up to the 35Mbps speed. I don't know just trying to piece it together.
Sorry Nik. Its 6k for the camera, and it does 35mbs. if it shot the 50mbps 4:2:2, that would be AMAZING. But thats like Panasonic giving us AVC intra in a HVX200. it aing gonna happen.
mikkowilson
Steadi-Guru
As someone who spent a lot of time playing with this camera and discussing it at IBC, I can completly solidy confirm that it shoot 35mbps 4:1:1 and 25mbps 4:1:1 and that's IT. No 50mbps, no 4:2:2 recording.
- Mikko
- Mikko
No 50 Mbs or 4:2:2, but surely no 4:1:1? I think you mean 4:2:0, don't you? I don't know of any HD codec that is 4:1:1, and can only think of DVCPro with that colourspace for SD.
(At least in the 50Hz world.)
Barry_Green
Moderator
Don't know where the $6,000 idea is coming from; the only price we've seen yet was $7499 at B&H. Tomorrow is supposed to be the US press release day though.
As for the 50mbps, I think Shane just got some mixed wires there. Sony also introduced a new 50-megabit 4:2:2 version of XDCAM-HD, called (IIRC) XDCAM MPEG422. That's only available on the 2/3" lineup of new XDCAM cameras, not the XDCAM EX.
As for the 50mbps, I think Shane just got some mixed wires there. Sony also introduced a new 50-megabit 4:2:2 version of XDCAM-HD, called (IIRC) XDCAM MPEG422. That's only available on the 2/3" lineup of new XDCAM cameras, not the XDCAM EX.
Sony's UK site has had the specs up for a while now--so no mysteries re the specs.
http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/Sho...rview&imageType=Main&category=XDCAMCamcorders
Sony is aiming the EX1 arrow straight at the HVX200, so I'd expect the EX1 to be competitive on every level--including price. You can bet the SxS cards are going to be close in price to P2. In the end, I think it's going to come down to the higher res of the 1/2" chips vs. the drawbacks of a new flavor of HDV inter-frame compression and its associated weaknesses and workflow headaches. The EX1 isn't going to be a dog or a slam-dunk against the HVX, so I think it'll be worth evaluating for a lot of people.
Panny may think they're sitting pretty with the HVX's DVCPRO HD codec, but HDV EXCAM HQ is going to be a very efficient codec. Coupled with those 1/2" chips, I think it's going to be a horse race. As Barry mentioned, Vegas will have full support for the EX1--and other support will follow.
Timur--With the EX1 here and mini-RED on the horizon, I'd sure be thinking about AVC-Intra for the next iteration of the HVX. It's a codec that requires some upgraded boards--not a manned Mars mission.
http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/Sho...rview&imageType=Main&category=XDCAMCamcorders
Sony is aiming the EX1 arrow straight at the HVX200, so I'd expect the EX1 to be competitive on every level--including price. You can bet the SxS cards are going to be close in price to P2. In the end, I think it's going to come down to the higher res of the 1/2" chips vs. the drawbacks of a new flavor of HDV inter-frame compression and its associated weaknesses and workflow headaches. The EX1 isn't going to be a dog or a slam-dunk against the HVX, so I think it'll be worth evaluating for a lot of people.
Panny may think they're sitting pretty with the HVX's DVCPRO HD codec, but HDV EXCAM HQ is going to be a very efficient codec. Coupled with those 1/2" chips, I think it's going to be a horse race. As Barry mentioned, Vegas will have full support for the EX1--and other support will follow.
Timur--With the EX1 here and mini-RED on the horizon, I'd sure be thinking about AVC-Intra for the next iteration of the HVX. It's a codec that requires some upgraded boards--not a manned Mars mission.
mikkowilson
Steadi-Guru
Erm, either 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 .. I can't recall exactly, but mathematically they are identical anway.
- Mikko
- Mikko
No way.... i believe AVCintra will never make it to anything less than the HPX2000. Thats like sony providing HDcamSR to the EX1. its just not gonna happen. if it does, i will eat my shoe on film and post it here, ala Herzog.
Barry?
Barry?
macgregor
Veteran
Unless they ruin the colors (something which Sony has done in the past) this comera is going to be the coolest thing made by humans (together with the ISS and the RED1).
1/2" sensors
CMOS
full 1080p
solid memory
interchangable lenses
nice LCD
competitive price
wow! it has everything!
1/2" sensors
CMOS
full 1080p
solid memory
interchangable lenses
nice LCD
competitive price
wow! it has everything!
mikkowilson
Steadi-Guru
Guys, the EX1 does NOT have interchangeable lenses.
- Mikko
- Mikko