FS5: Sony releases v1.1 firmware
- Thread starter BeeHop
- Start date
That footage is disgusting
I hope it was before the new firmware?Personally i would never ever go +12db and expect a clean image (I'm talking Cinegamma)
BTW what lens did u use on those beautifully captured SLOG3 footage? ? ?
I use a Canon 24-105 with the Speed Booster i have not seen any ugly footage. Just a thought. Hmmmmm
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Alisters comments were bordering on 'Internet Bullying.'
The guy shoots skies for a living - Thats my reply to his 'Complainers' comment.
Erik Naso
Veteran
New V1.11 firmware sample. Cine2 with PRO color Mode. ISO 640. This was the first shot I got tonight.
4K frame grab on Fliker.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/61097486@N06/25263301466/in/dateposted-public/
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Erik Naso
Veteran
LOL!
I think we should stop bickering and get back to the update. Nothing left to complain about.
Here is another frame grab. Check out the 4K grab on flickr.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/61097486@N06/24665966503/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/
NeedCreative
Well-known member
Well, half asleep I just ran some before and after tests just shooting a lit wall in an otherwise dimly lit room. I made the light deep blue, as that is the most troublesome channel. This was in no way a scientific test or anything, just an apples to apples comparison before and after the FW application, and a comparison to the A7RII.
The short answer is this firmware is a HUGE improvement. The noise now looks like grain, and you could push even to ISO 12800 and use it, though the NR stresses at that level. ISO 6400 (+6DB?) is absolutely useful. And I am shooting 4K Slog3, of all things, though properly exposed.
Now the old FW didn't look too bad at base gain/ISO of 3200. However the shadows showed some very jumpy large blocks where the light fell off. The new 1.11 firmware shows none of this.. just a fine grain. ISO beyond 3200/0db gain was also patently unusable in the old firmware due to tearing and ghosting in the image - especially at ISO 12800. The new FW shows none of these problems. While it's noisy of course at that setting, it's a fine grain noise that you can totally work with vs large digital blocks smearing all over the place - which also showed up externally.
Now I will admit at base ISO/gain, the differences between the two firmwares in this scene weren't greatly apparent unless you looked at one specific portion of the image where the light had a shallow drop off in a gradient. That's where the banding and dancing blocks came in, but at first glance one may not have noticed. Bring it to ISO 6400 though and forget it, the old FW was a mess.
The noise performance now looks similar to my A7RII in S35 mode. I have oddly noticed that the A7RII is significantly cleaner at 6400 vs 3200 (which may be a sensor push vs pull kind of thing) but the cameras are now in the same ballpark image quality wise which is great. The FS7 of course is cleaner owing to it's 10 bits, 422 color, and 2.5x bitrate on the cards.
I could definitely shoot pictures on the old FW that had no issues, by the way. These were however limited to brightly lit scenes at base gain/ISO with no areas of unexposed shadow or anything like a shallow gradient on a wall or sky. Many shots looked great. However, the new firmware removes all the limits, including skies and dirty blocky shadows and adds the ability to again gain up. This fw finally allows you to use the camera as intended - as a doco/event cinema camera in varying lighting conditions - and not have it just fall apart in a macro block hell like it could before. Now it's just grain.
Yes the FS7 is cleaner still. Yes the A7SII can shoot much higher gain. But with this latest FW the FS5 is in a much greater class and I have nothing but wonderful things to say about Sony's response.
Some, like Doug, did not see these issues. That is fine... if you shoot scenes like I mentioned honestly you may have never seen it until it bit you in the ass on a low light/shallow gradient scene. Now there is no reason to worry anymore; you can use the camera as designed.
I am really happy I complained loudly and Sony listened. The camera is much better off and much less hobbled now for it, and Sony has demonstrated an amazing level of speed and understanding to its users, Alister not withstanding.
I would complain in a heartbeat again if I saw a major issue. I did so when the C300 was first released with horrible highlight aliasing... and they fixed that very quickly too.
The short answer is this firmware is a HUGE improvement. The noise now looks like grain, and you could push even to ISO 12800 and use it, though the NR stresses at that level. ISO 6400 (+6DB?) is absolutely useful. And I am shooting 4K Slog3, of all things, though properly exposed.
Now the old FW didn't look too bad at base gain/ISO of 3200. However the shadows showed some very jumpy large blocks where the light fell off. The new 1.11 firmware shows none of this.. just a fine grain. ISO beyond 3200/0db gain was also patently unusable in the old firmware due to tearing and ghosting in the image - especially at ISO 12800. The new FW shows none of these problems. While it's noisy of course at that setting, it's a fine grain noise that you can totally work with vs large digital blocks smearing all over the place - which also showed up externally.
Now I will admit at base ISO/gain, the differences between the two firmwares in this scene weren't greatly apparent unless you looked at one specific portion of the image where the light had a shallow drop off in a gradient. That's where the banding and dancing blocks came in, but at first glance one may not have noticed. Bring it to ISO 6400 though and forget it, the old FW was a mess.
The noise performance now looks similar to my A7RII in S35 mode. I have oddly noticed that the A7RII is significantly cleaner at 6400 vs 3200 (which may be a sensor push vs pull kind of thing) but the cameras are now in the same ballpark image quality wise which is great. The FS7 of course is cleaner owing to it's 10 bits, 422 color, and 2.5x bitrate on the cards.
I could definitely shoot pictures on the old FW that had no issues, by the way. These were however limited to brightly lit scenes at base gain/ISO with no areas of unexposed shadow or anything like a shallow gradient on a wall or sky. Many shots looked great. However, the new firmware removes all the limits, including skies and dirty blocky shadows and adds the ability to again gain up. This fw finally allows you to use the camera as intended - as a doco/event cinema camera in varying lighting conditions - and not have it just fall apart in a macro block hell like it could before. Now it's just grain.
Yes the FS7 is cleaner still. Yes the A7SII can shoot much higher gain. But with this latest FW the FS5 is in a much greater class and I have nothing but wonderful things to say about Sony's response.
Some, like Doug, did not see these issues. That is fine... if you shoot scenes like I mentioned honestly you may have never seen it until it bit you in the ass on a low light/shallow gradient scene. Now there is no reason to worry anymore; you can use the camera as designed.
I am really happy I complained loudly and Sony listened. The camera is much better off and much less hobbled now for it, and Sony has demonstrated an amazing level of speed and understanding to its users, Alister not withstanding.
I would complain in a heartbeat again if I saw a major issue. I did so when the C300 was first released with horrible highlight aliasing... and they fixed that very quickly too.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
The camera's sensitivity varies according to the gamma mode that is selected. For Cine 2 it is ISO 640. Or at least that's what the camera says, the actual sensitivity for Cine 2 that I measured is ISO 500.
Erik Naso
Veteran
That's correct and interesting. I actually thought the base ISO was 1000 in CINE but when I switched to CINE2 I got 640. Doug how do you measure ISO levels?
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Erik Naso
Veteran
Shooting with the FS5 is a real treat. If I had to pick I would take the FS5 in a heart beat. Why? Because I don't need a camera that shoots over 6400 ISO. The A7s II's strength is high ISO and full frame look. After that it's a hybrid camera. If you want a proper video camera the FS5 is a pleasure to shoot with. When I have to give it back I'm going to miss the variable neutral density filter and weight of the body a lot.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
I am fortunate to own the right tools so it isn't too hard. I use a DSC Chroma duMonde chart, a Leader LV-5330 waveform monitor, a Sekonic L758c light meter, and my high-end Cine-Xenar prime lenses that have f-stop markings I trust completely. I've found that most the ISO numbers the FS5 displays are too high, but sometimes they are spot-on, in fact the FS5 is more frequently correct than most of the other Sony cameras that I've tested. But ultimately it makes no difference to me anyway because I use the Gain mode (not ISO) and zebras to set exposure in the real world.
I appreciate the incite, I've been hunting for a dedicated video camera anyway. I already have a a6000 for stills and maybe an a6300 too.
Just watching the FS5 reviews and peoples opinions have really made a solid impact on my choice. Especially now with the firmware updates. Hopefully they continue more with it.
Ursa mini 4.6k, had my attention due to the frame rates/codec/compressions, but BMD is so damn slow with their production and releases it turns me off. Lol
And the FS7 I'd pick first of all 3, but that's just way more $$ then the FS5 for me at least.
Ben Scott
Veteran
I get that a lot. Can't move for being thrown in the air and sung at. I think it's my cheeky smile.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
My advice would be to find a way to afford an FS7 even if you have to wait a little while before you buy it. The FS7 is a really huge step up from the FS5 for not all that much more money in the long run.
Buy according to what you'll be using the cameras for and factor in your financial situation. I'm not a professional like Doug so the FS7 would be overkill for me at this time.
Well, I think my previous comment was that the fault was relatively minor (compared to some of the comments that were made) - but WAS there, needed to be addressed, and probably would be able to be via firmware.
I also thought it was likely to be noise reduction related, and any "fix" may mean switchable in/out noise reduction - so any "fixed" version would show lower sensitivity. (As happened with a similar problem with the HPX370.)
It seems I got that wrong, and in the case of the FS5 it doesn't seem to have come at the expense of poorer low light performance? Can anybody confirm that? Because if so, it is indeed very well done Sony. (And I'm delighted to have been proven wrong! )
I also thought it was likely to be noise reduction related, and any "fix" may mean switchable in/out noise reduction - so any "fixed" version would show lower sensitivity. (As happened with a similar problem with the HPX370.)
It seems I got that wrong, and in the case of the FS5 it doesn't seem to have come at the expense of poorer low light performance? Can anybody confirm that? Because if so, it is indeed very well done Sony. (And I'm delighted to have been proven wrong!
)