Jaime Valles
Veteran
HEHEHEHEHE!!! I just keep laughing whenever I think of SONY. hehe hoo!
Sony announces 4k camera.. and oh yes, a 1080 one too.
- Thread starter Jarred Land
- Start date
acehole111
Well-known member
Cinealta.. Apply directly to forehead
Cinealta.. Apply directly to forehead
Cinealta.. Apply directly to forehead
Cinealta.. Apply directly to forehead
Cinealta.. Apply directly to forehead
firewallet
Well-known member
acehole111 said:
Thank you acehole111:thumbup:
i don´t get exactly what you want to say - english isn´t my first language.acehole111 said:
on our hdcam & cinealta, we had 5 fullfeatures shot this year. we are using mainly the 750 @ 25p, since it came out. it is a great camera and served and will serve well to many people. for many applications, it will remain choice #1, even when our reds arrive here. for fullfeature, i think red will be the most used.
there is no reason to trashtalk good gear. that might even turnaround, especially as red, when it hits the market, has advantages and disadvantages in comparision to cinealta. the most important attribute for me (image quality) isn´t the most important criteria for many people. ergonomics, workflow, options, format acceptance and yes, highly qualified labourforce and a swift worldwide support are aspects quite important for many customers.
so don´t put sony (and arri, panavision, dalsa, GV, aaton, panasonic etc) down to much - that doesn´t do any good for red, it can even backlash.
many buyers, producers, dops and financepeople are really conservative. and believe me, often enough it is pretty hard to convince people who never shot high-end digital to put their money. it might be crazy - but some of these guys don´t feel secure if the full camerasetup isn´t wort 200.000-250.000. that this is stupid in many cases is clear, however, it is a quite usual sceptical attitude many people (especially elder ones who had many wonders promised before and don´t know much about digital technology) have.
-every- single 1080p, 2k and 4k camera which successfully is shooting in the industry helps the transition from photochemical to digital cinematography. so, it helps red. and therefore, it is certainly not recommendable to trashtalk the (as of now) #1 in digital cinematic aquisition. be it cinealta, be it the (sony designed for the most part) panavision genesis.
i suppose -many- red shot masters will be presented at the festivals and find their way for top-end HD broadcasting on Sony HDCAM and on HDCAM SR - i wouldn´zt know any better etablished format for this on the market, until DCI is feasible on a budget with desktop workstations and accepted and etablished as a delivery format in the common broadcast world - which isn´t the case as of yet, and as it sadly seems, for some years to come.
finally - when it comes to colorgrading, the sony BVM CRT monitor series are the best i know. we have the BVM20 & 14HD here (and a small fleet of 1415s, 20s in SD). overpriced? certainly yes. will i put them down for a viewsonic ~<4K LCD which cost 15%? No.
Jannard
Red Leader
I don't think anyone is saying that the 950, or now F23, is a bad camera. What is interesting is that Sony releases its NEW cine camera, then 5 minutes later announces that its 4k camera (due out sometime in a few years) is the new standard of excellence. Seems to put a bullet in the heart of their 2/3" cine lineup. Interesting marketing. That's all.
Jim
Jim
Barry_Green
Moderator
Jannard said:
If it was an isolated incident, it'd be interesting marketing. But they did the same thing with HDV/AVC-HD, as well as XDCAM. The broadcast division came out with XDCAM-HD (which is MPEG-2, like their HDV); then Sony announced the new AVC-HD format, where they basically said MPEG-2 is toast, it's done, stick a fork in it; AVC is "more than twice as efficient" and it's the "format best suited for the HD camera era."
And then a few months later what do they do? Introduce the MPEG-2 FX7 and V1U!
So I don't know that it's so much a case of "interesting" marketing, as it is just flat-out BIZARRE marketing.
Illya Friedman
Well-known member
When Sony announced XDCam HD there was a lot of on-line chatter about how Sony was shooting their own foot, and how it was going to totally replace HDCam.
That hasn't happened and the way things are going, it doesn't look like that will happen unless they discontinue HDCam alltogether or make XDCam HD the same price as HDV.
It'll be interesting to see what their plan is for 4K... Probably involving some flavor of their 1/2" tape ;-)
I.
That hasn't happened and the way things are going, it doesn't look like that will happen unless they discontinue HDCam alltogether or make XDCam HD the same price as HDV.
It'll be interesting to see what their plan is for 4K... Probably involving some flavor of their 1/2" tape ;-)
I.
indeed, strategic marketing at sony seems a little out of tune since some years, i agree.Jannard said:
i have experienced that first hands.
when we bought the 750 (which back then should be the lesser camera to the 900), sony supposed that the missing 24p of the 750 would be an obstacle for european cinema buyers as it is in th usa - however, in europe a huge chunk, is 25p, and nobody really cares, while the US 750 only does 29/60, the euro was allowed to get 25/50)
the poor salespeople at sony had to sell the 900 against the 4 years more advanced 750... 4 years is a lot in digital technology, and so the 750 had
- hdsdi (900 doesnt)
- wireless audio (900 doesnt)
- ~6.2 pds (900 ~10)
- almost noiseless (900 noisy)
- slowshutter (900 none)
- timelaps (900 no)
- downconverter (900 none)
- 30% less powerhungry
etc..
their final pro-900 feature was - the 900 is 12bit. now, hdcam is 8 bit, isn it?
therefore, most of the EU market went 750, quite different from the planning and the USA.
finally, 2 years later, the new 900 appears on the eu-market. a 750 with 24p. so much for strategic marketing.
in 2004, the 4k sony projector people tried to convince the buyers that 4k is must to competete christie, while the cameradivision told the exact opposite to defeat arri & dalsa...
however, for good reason, trashtalking competition isn´t even a good idea if you have a product which is superior in many regards. nobody of red does this, i know - but some of the fellow forumfriends here might be tempted to do so (maybe even with good reason)...
... however, wouldn´t it be cute, if we could leave that to some other forums?
EL_STUPIDO
Active member
While I am glad that there will be more choice for 4k in 3 years time, (which'll be around the time that I actually manage to purchase a camera) I would still hedge my bets with this project. In fact the projects I am working on are already hedging.
[JJ: Awww... isn't that sweet?]*
You see, I'm sure Sony will do something GREAT for the release time... but right now, the concept behind Jim's camera is pretty sound - ie that it is a modular camera, designed for upgrades and expansion and stuff?
Surely when Goliath roars, Red will answer with something I can screw on to that dishy little cage/rail...
[JJ: Nooooo doubt. Word]**
El Stupido
*actual JJ quotes may not be real
** that doesn't mean to say he don't listen to the ole hippity hop.
[JJ: Awww... isn't that sweet?]*
You see, I'm sure Sony will do something GREAT for the release time... but right now, the concept behind Jim's camera is pretty sound - ie that it is a modular camera, designed for upgrades and expansion and stuff?
Surely when Goliath roars, Red will answer with something I can screw on to that dishy little cage/rail...
[JJ: Nooooo doubt. Word]**
El Stupido
*actual JJ quotes may not be real
** that doesn't mean to say he don't listen to the ole hippity hop.
acehole111
Well-known member
laguun said:
I was making light of Sony's marketing practices.
Not knocking the camera itself or anything.tonacidigital
Well-known member
Jannard said:
I think RED is lighting Sony's ass on fire. Sony's marketing strategy is likely an involuntary reaction to the existence of RED. This f23 is something they have probably been working on before "frankie" was even given life. Sony knows that their f23 is inferior to RED. Rather than protecting their 2/3 cine lineup, they felt they had no choice but to make a statement that they are indeed working on a 4k camera of their own. Without RED, I doubt we would be seeing an announcement about a 4k camera from Sony this soon.
Sony has been slowly chewing its own arms off for the past few years. It'd be nice if they stopped chewing, or chew faster.
insanityfw
Ban Me Please!
Jannard said:
...yes, you are.
Jim, sunglasses and cameras aren't exactly the same... Sony may have stange marketing ideas, but honestly every serious professional won't listen to these marketing guys. And in this domain you're a genius, that's right... having raised so much money without having shown a single decent moving picture which illustrates the 35mm depth of field you're claiming is great ! Greescreen (Stump pictures), tele (the parking lot) and "macro" (the glasses) don't do it. Please take your camera outside, take some landscapes shots, some people moving, it would be better...
Just my two cents...
Kristin
Just my two cents...
Kristin
acehole111
Well-known member
I beg to differ. In any professional marketplace, quality is what it comes down to. When you make your bread and butter from a product, you will want the best just as you would want the best for your own health. Oakleyfulfilled that need for professional sportsmen and women. And not only have they succeeded, but theyve also rendered the competition obsolete by pushing the boundaries of technology and not by resting on status quo (Rayban/Sony).kstewart said:
The success of RED will no doubt depend on their ability to create their own proprietry technology (Mysterium) and patent anything they can get their hands on. I guess patents are the nail in the elephants toe when competing with large companies, as demonstrated in the Oakley case studies. And if RED is to follow in Oakleys footsteps, the future looks as bright as the red hot sun.