Some Pix from Apple Event

ONe thing I wish the DVX and this new camera had was the ability to switch out lenses; not that will be a breakthough; sorry Canon. (your Curves and 24p don't seem to be what I am used to or wanting)

The IRIS? I dig what you are saying about a Ring but I am truly satisfied with the DVX version; anything like that and I'm stoked; again, sorry Canon with your 'step meter' IRIS

Low Light 24p; now that's a trick.
 
I'd guess that the lowlight performance is the same as the Z1. I haven't seen that footage, but I wouldn't expect much from HD on 1/3 chips.

Good point, Resevoir, for filmmaking a 4GB p2 card and laptop will be great. In fact you can buy a laptop and 4GB p2 card for the same as the upgraded version.
 
jrv3034 said:
...Delete bad takes on the spot...

When I do my next feature film, it will definitely be recorded on P2 cards. It's "no questions asked" filmmaking.
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Then where will all the funny outtakes for the DVD release come from? That's the great thing about tape or HDD recording. You still have all the material for the extras and the Directors Cut.

johnc
 
Time to sleep, here.

The specs are awesome for the price.

Can't wait to see some footage. Tomorrow ?
 
Sure, a traditional aperture ring is nice, but it looks like Panny upgraded the aperture control on the HVX200. It's a big fat ergonomic roller bar compared to the DVX100's skinny wheel. And say what you will about the DVX aperture control--it's very useable if not ideal. So the HVX200 control is a step in the right direction. The DSP? Well by their very nature DVCPRO50 and DVCPROHD are much fatter codecs. The DVX100 squeezes most of the juice out of the DV standard. Jan's already commented on the poor dynamic range and low light performance of the Z1--meaning the HVX200 will be better and these points will be used for marketing leverage.


Mediacre said:
So far, accounting for what we already know:

Real lens, or at least real iris.

But I also hope the DSP is better than the DVX and that the low light performance is better than Z1 and hopefully, better than PD150 too.

The rest we need to wait till tomorrow to know.
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Barry_S said:
Sure, a traditional aperture ring is nice, but it looks like Panny upgraded the aperture control on the HVX200. It's a big fat ergonomic roller bar compared to the DVX100's skinny wheel.
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Is it the big ring under the lens?


I hope you right about dynamic range and low light performance.
 
Mediacre said:
P2 on location will suck. Unless you have a load of them.

Firestore will be better for location work and have the same advantages of P2.
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How so? I'd think P2 is DESIGNED for on set shooting. Shoot a few takes, offload the p2 card as the setup is changing for the next shot. All you need is a laptop and 1 4GB P2 card. That shouldn't be too expensive. And did I mention NO DROPOUTS, EVER!!!!!! This alone is worth the price of P2. Hard Disks are less reliable, and require more cables and power. Though they're STILL better than Tape. (DIE TAPE, DIE!)

johnc said:
Then where will all the funny outtakes for the DVD release come from? That's the great thing about tape or HDD recording. You still have all the material for the extras and the Directors Cut.
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Hey, I meant delete the bad takes, not the funny ones. I'm finishing up editing my first feature shot with DVX, and while there were a lot of funny outtakes, there were 20 times more BAD takes that weren't funny. An actor standing too far off left. A boom shadow in the background. The camera left recording by mistake and using up 20 minutes of tape until someone figured it out.

The flubbed lines and people tripping on each other I love, but they're not nearly as many as just bad, unfunny takes.
 
jrv3034 said:
How so? I'd think P2 is DESIGNED for on set shooting. Shoot a few takes, offload the p2 card as the setup is changing for the next shot. All you need is a laptop and 1 4GB P2 card. That shouldn't be too expensive.
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The catch is in "offload the p2 card as the setup is changing for the next shot". You need to grag a laptop with you. Firestore is cheaper than a P2 card, smaller than a laptop and fits way more footage than a P2.
 
Mediacre said:
The catch is in "offload the p2 card as the setup is changing for the next shot". You need to grag a laptop with you. Firestore is cheaper than a P2 card, smaller than a laptop and fits way more footage than a P2.
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Dude, I don't know what kind of movies you're shooting, but on my set there was a big production monitor, tripods, cranes, lights, crates full of stuff... Adding one laptop to the mix is nothing, especially when I don't have to capture anything later, plus I have no fear of dropouts, ever, and no fear that the HDD will die on me. Have you heard the horror stories of people with the Quickstream or the FS4?
 
Not sure how relevant this is but I found this link to some info on firewire SBP2. Seems it very well may be HDD compatible out of the box. the link is for DSP boards but give an overview of what FWSBP2 is for those who do not know.
http://www.traquair.com/products/microline/sbp2.html

EDIT: after reading that it seems that Panasonic would have to write an SBP2 "driver" that would allow the cam to see any FW disk as a storage device. Am I on the right track here?
 
Yeah, but there are times when a portable system is the only way to get a shot. That's when I say P2 sucks compared to Firestore which is more portable. If you are in a set, then it's ok.
 
Sure, if you need a shot that's improv of someone walking through a big crowd and you need lots of coverage, definitely use the Firestore. Seems like the ideal way of recording long-form takes (20 minute shots, a-la Snake Eyes or The Player). I just prefer the safety net of P2 backed up to HDD, but of course there's situatiuons that call for the Firestore. Thankfully, we can choose!
 
jrv3034 said:
Seems like the ideal way of recording long-form takes (20 minute shots, a-la Snake Eyes
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As the steadicam sequence in snake eyes consists of three parts, cut together, it could be done on P2 cards as well....

Can't wait to eliminate the videodrum noise from my recordings....
 
jrv3034 said:
Sure, if you need a shot that's improv of someone walking through a big crowd and you need lots of coverage, definitely use the Firestore. Seems like the ideal way of recording long-form takes (20 minute shots, a-la Snake Eyes or The Player). I just prefer the safety net of P2 backed up to HDD, but of course there's situatiuons that call for the Firestore. Thankfully, we can choose!
Click to expand...


For me, P2 is really good for studio shots. But for location, you need to drag around a laptop and lots of battery for it. It's still much easier just to bring tapes. Although I do know for DVCPRO-HD at 6K, it#s not possible.
 
Mediacre said:
Yeah, but there are times when a portable system is the only way to get a shot. That's when I say P2 sucks compared to Firestore which is more portable. If you are in a set, then it's ok.
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But -- the P2 system will be *more* portable than the FireStore, because the P2 cards are tiny and loaded in the camera, whereas a FireStore is going to be an external box attached by a cable.

That was one thing I found interesting about the P2 Store instead of the FireStore -- you're not tethered to the camera. The camera's free to do whatever it needs to, and then you can dump the card's contents off to the P2 Store. Whereas with the FireStore, you're tethered to the camera. Not a *huge* drawback, as the FireStore is apparently a very popular product, but certainly not as portable as just a P2 card. If you were going up in a helicopter for a specific shot or something, I'd think you'd be much better off shooting it on P2 than trying to use a FireStore.

In any case, I think the FireStore, great as it is, is the wrong product for this camera. I think we need compatibility with off-the-shelf hard disks. I'm hoping that it'll support a file system and SBP2 so you can plug in any off-the-shelf firewire or USB2 hard disk. I've got a 2.5" 60gb external hard disk in an enclosure, cost me about $100 at CompUSA, and it's powered off the USB2 bus. That things's ultimately portable, and cheap enough that I could conceivably just hand it over to the producer at the end of a shoot. That's something you could never do with an $800 40-gb FireStore.

We already know the camera has a file system, because it uses it to write to P2 cards and organize and play back those files. How much of a stretch is it to extend that out the firewire/USB2 port? That would be the ultimate solution -- hard disks for longform recording (or for those who can't afford any P2 cards); P2 cards for ultimate reliability etc.
 
I'm thinking this camera will be a huge hit for nearly every reality show, doc or lo-budget tv series to come. The future higher capacity P2 cards will pay for themselves in no time when compared to tape costs (DVCam and above). And no more uprezing a standard def picture to the HD channels.

I'm saving my pennies asap. This rig will be a huge hit for me! Whoohooo! :)
 
Barry_Green said:
But -- the P2 system will be *more* portable than the FireStore, because the P2 cards are tiny and loaded in the camera, whereas a FireStore is going to be an external box attached by a cable.

That was one thing I found interesting about the P2 Store instead of the FireStore -- you're not tethered to the camera. The camera's free to do whatever it needs to, and then you can dump the card's contents off to the P2 Store. Whereas with the FireStore, you're tethered to the camera. Not a *huge* drawback, as the FireStore is apparently a very popular product, but certainly not as portable as just a P2 card. If you were going up in a helicopter for a specific shot or something, I'd think you'd be much better off shooting it on P2 than trying to use a FireStore.

In any case, I think the FireStore, great as it is, is the wrong product for this camera. I think we need compatibility with off-the-shelf hard disks. I'm hoping that it'll support a file system and SBP2 so you can plug in any off-the-shelf firewire or USB2 hard disk. I've got a 2.5" 60gb external hard disk in an enclosure, cost me about $100 at CompUSA, and it's powered off the USB2 bus. That things's ultimately portable, and cheap enough that I could conceivably just hand it over to the producer at the end of a shoot. That's something you could never do with an $800 40-gb FireStore.

We already know the camera has a file system, because it uses it to write to P2 cards and organize and play back those files. How much of a stretch is it to extend that out the firewire/USB2 port? That would be the ultimate solution -- hard disks for longform recording (or for those who can't afford any P2 cards); P2 cards for ultimate reliability etc.
Click to expand...

But if you need to record let's say20 min. of HD, you need many P2 and they are awfully expensive now. Or you need to drag a laptop along, which may be incovenient.

The 2.5" Disck from CompUSA sounds interesting. but you would still need a laptop, wouldn't you?
 
Mediacre said:
But if you need to record let's say20 min. of HD, you need many P2 and they are awfully expensive now. Or you need to drag a laptop along, which may be incovenient.

The 2.5" Disck from CompUSA sounds interesting. but you would still need a laptop, wouldn't you?
Click to expand...

Two 8GB Cards gives you 16 minutes of uninterrupted 1080/24p, if I'm not mistaken.

And if our speculation on Hard Disk recording is correct, then you only need to plug the Hard Disk directly to the camera. No laptop required! Just the off-the-shelf external FW Hard Disk and a cable connecting it to the HVX!
 
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