Some footage...please!
- Thread starter pbarry
- Start date
This footage of the man in the park looks like video, no mistaking it. The beautiful (for the money) film gamma that even the HVX200 displays is not being seen in this particular clip. I don't think anyone is sure what gamma setting this camera had when this footage was shot. But I am really hoping for better with settings tweaked properly. Make no mistake, it's nice video, but it looks a lot like a decent 2/3" chip video camera - right now. I will add the UK stuff I saw from Phillip must have had a bit softer gamma, as I thought it looked more filmic.
Michael Olsen
Veteran
Disclaimer: I watched the native clip a number of times 1:1 at 1080p/24 on a 27" screen. I never "pixel-peeped", went frame-by-frame, or looked past 100%.
1. The very first time I watched the clip, I was drawn to something going on with the hat in the first few ~7 seconds. It doesn't really feel like noise, but it does feel like something is "crawling" over the image. I don't know if it is the subtle texture, or something else.
2. There seemed to be a few moments where areas of fine detail or motion kind of got...funky. Rather than just having smooth motion blur, it looked a bit chunky.
3. The way the highlights blow to the right of the man's hat after zooming out annoys me. It seems very "video".
4. I noticed some aliasing in motion on the railing - especially near the blown highlight. Also on the sketchbook.
That being said, this is a still a big improvement over what I would have gotten out of my 7D in the same situation. And I'm thinking there will be people who think I'm just seeing things...maybe I am. In any event, definitely a step in the right direction!
1. The very first time I watched the clip, I was drawn to something going on with the hat in the first few ~7 seconds. It doesn't really feel like noise, but it does feel like something is "crawling" over the image. I don't know if it is the subtle texture, or something else.
2. There seemed to be a few moments where areas of fine detail or motion kind of got...funky. Rather than just having smooth motion blur, it looked a bit chunky.
3. The way the highlights blow to the right of the man's hat after zooming out annoys me. It seems very "video".
4. I noticed some aliasing in motion on the railing - especially near the blown highlight. Also on the sketchbook.
That being said, this is a still a big improvement over what I would have gotten out of my 7D in the same situation. And I'm thinking there will be people who think I'm just seeing things...maybe I am. In any event, definitely a step in the right direction!
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Homunculus
Carbonite Member
michael olson if you want to see 'crawling' look in the shadows under the old man's left arm/armpit area when he moves the arm. there's all sorts of fun stuff going on there
Steve Kahn
Well-known member
I see that crawling you mention on the vimeo clip but NOT on the downloaded MTS file that Barry provided. (http://www.mediafire.com/?6h7bzt8ztcjxcsm)
Again, only on the Vimeo clip to my eyes.
Agreed, though, the blwon out highlights don't look... beautiful to be euphemistic. I guess if I had to shoot this scene I'd throw the background out of focus to lessen that effect but I understand Barry did it to demonstrate the detail and robust codec.
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Chris Messineo
Veteran
It seems like too many people are trying to judge this shot for artistry which wasn't what Barry was trying to do. This isn't some dramatic scene, properly lit, with a prime lens, and amazing composition. It is a quick test to demonstrate the range and technical capability of the camera.
I for one and really impressed with how the camera performs - especially with the textures in the clothes. I have no doubt that with a properly directed and composed shot the camera will be everything I have been waiting for.
I for one and really impressed with how the camera performs - especially with the textures in the clothes. I have no doubt that with a properly directed and composed shot the camera will be everything I have been waiting for.
Madaspy
Active member
I wonder if it still exhibits the phenomena if you have the lens stopped down at a wider focal length to an aperture that can be used at the narrower focal length.
Hopefully Berry can shed some light on the subject. Please, no pun intended.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Too much FUD-ness in the thread, I am going to bed.
Paul Vicente
Well-known member
No one should judge the quality from the Vimeo clip.... Vimeo is a means to view the clip quickly. To judge the image one needs to either grab the mpeg file or better yet, pull down the original camera file that Barry made available.
"Did anyone notice the old man?"
"Did anyone notice the old man?"
plasmasmp
Well-known member
Splash lite is a good alternative player I use for gh13 footage. I must say that I can't wait to start pixel peeping when it's allowed.
I'm basically snapping my suspenders in anticipation.
I really really want to play with the finished cam just to pixel peep to my heart's content.
I'm basically snapping my suspenders in anticipation.
I really really want to play with the finished cam just to pixel peep to my heart's content.
BobDiaz
The Professor
The re-compressed file can have noise or some other problem added to the image. Looking at the source file is the best way to judge the image.
It would be interesting at a future date to see the exact same image shot with different cameras. I'd love to see the tweed of the man's jacket on a DSLR. I'd love to see how other cameras deal with the wide range of brightness levels.
Bob Diaz
Jarek Zabczynski
Veteran
Yeah, I noticed the stuff in the hat immediately. I'm assuming that's the AVCCAM compression doing that. I guess I'll need a KiMini afterall...
John Caballero
Veteran
Those things "crawling" over the hat are actually called Bed Bugs. When they bite you they do it 3 times in a row. A doctor we were interviewing once told us that the bites are called breakfast, lunch and dinner, and thats how they know is a bed bug bitting. There is a plague now with them in NYC. They are horrible and very painful. You see, we might as well talk about bed bugs and make the conversation as useful to those of us interested in the AF100. I think Barry is sick in bed at the moment because he has repeated so many times that it is useless to judge the images coming from the prototypes. He might be under sedation. It really gets ridiculous every time a camera is in the situation the AF100 is at the moment. Judgments at this time serve no meaningful purpose at all.
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Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
There is something weird happening during the zoom out yes. Maybe due to aperture changing in that 14-140 lens. It seams the image loses it's focus a couple of brief times during the zoom and this causes this artefact (mud or not mud). Or it's the other way around, the codec causes the blur and artefact. Who knows.
What's unacceptable is unpredictable codec break-ups when shooting. If I know a cameras limitations it's fine because I can work around them but it worries me if this happen on a random basis. This is only the first clip and if it's a real issue or just a fluke we'll see.
Besides that I think it's a nice image. A bit less filmic looking and it is what I expected when having the GH1 in mind as a reference.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Exactly -- there is no artistry implied or attempted here. Wait until you see what Philip did with this same subject. I was more interested in how the camera operates and in the changes they've made and trying stuff out. I was not, in any way, trying to make "beautiful footage". This style isn't my forte, and I didn't even have a tripod, just a little monopod to avoid the whole handheld look.
You'll see more of that when Filippo and Philip post their footage. I watched their stuff on a 25' screen today. Looks pretty darn good.
Michael Olsen
Veteran
This is very true. However, since the camera is still in development, we have a small window of time to report any issues/problems we may find in the footage as something that may be potentially improved in the last 5%.
I'd rather point out a few minor flaws and have one of them partially improved than sit back and say "It looks great!" - commentary which offers no room for improvement.
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
Word!
Chris Light
Veteran
user plasmamp uses SplashLite, as do i, for viewing mts clips....it's a great player with realtime bitrate info...i know bitrate isn't everything, but Barry's clip averages about 18Mb/sec in SplashLite....seems kinda low for the amount of detail in the clip. it dips down to 15Mb....then quickly up to 20Mb here and there, but no higher. again, nothing i care much about, but it looks great in the SplashLite player, i was just wondering if other players give you info like that while the clip plays.
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
Yes I would choose the varicam at 720p anytime over the panasonic prisoner cams. The look from those big boys are completely diff and very very filmic.