Slo-Mo and REDCODE RAW questions...

macgregor said:
You understood me wrong.

Grame said:
"4.5K is RAW, means sampling is RAW (not 4:4:4) and Super 35 framing."

And before that it has been said that only 4K is supported in the camera, which means, that 4.5K and S35 framing is not possible IN the camera.

So either we are loosing 4.5K raw in camera or some of the charts are wrong.
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this needs to be figured out immediately (at least for my sake) - why even buy a set of 35mm cine lenses if there is only one viable way to shoot with them and that way is not in camera? What is the diistinct difference in the FOV if shooting in 2K RGB between the 35mm Academy and Super 35mm?
 
acoreasc said:
this needs to be figured out immediately (at least for my sake) - why even buy a set of 35mm cine lenses if there is only one viable way to shoot with them and that way is not in camera? What is the diistinct difference in the FOV if shooting in 2K RGB between the 35mm Academy and Super 35mm?
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You can still shoot with them and record onboard, it is just that you won't get a full S35 field of view. The FOV would be 10% smaller for a given focal length. So in 4K the 18mm end of the zoom would be giving you the same FOV as a 16.4mm focal length would in S35. If you want to get the full S35 FOV and record onboard than the best option seems to be 2K RGB.

Martin
 
Muttondraw said:
If you want to get the full S35 FOV and record onboard than the best option seems to be 2K RGB.
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Again, as far as I'm aware, the 2K RGB is scaled from a 4K (not a 4.5K) frame, so it's still Aspect 35. The dimensions of the resulting frame also substantiate this. The only way to acheive Super 35 is by shooting 4.5K, and the only way to do that is via a RAID or other external disk array.
 
Haakon, you are right, i cant find when it was said that 2k RGB could be downscaled from 4.5K S35mm gate.

So that leaves us with no S35mm scanning area. Even worse.
 
Haakon said:
Again, as far as I'm aware, the 2K RGB is scaled from a 4K (not a 4.5K) frame, so it's still Aspect 35. The dimensions of the resulting frame also substantiate this. The only way to acheive Super 35 is by shooting 4.5K, and the only way to do that is via a RAID or other external disk array.
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Hmmm. Right again. You are making a habit of this. So the S35 format is probably going to be a bit too exotic for most.

M
 
macgregor said:
So that leaves us with no S35mm scanning area. Even worse.
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Not in 2K, no. You just have to make certain choices and determine what works best for you. I was kinda dissapointed as well when I realized that you can't shoot overcranking onboard, either, unless you're shooting windowed or in RGB. So you have to ask yourself, is getting the resolution of the 4K REDCODE RAW the most important thing, or are the slow motion shots the crucial element? I think that in time, RED will continue to evolve and develop, and they have made it clear that they are building in a planned upgrade path as well. And there may be new developments that we don't even know about as of yet, either. The camera isn't out for a few more months yet. :) So while it may not allow for every combination of choices right out of the gate, it is offering a lot - and at this price range, far more options than anything else in its class. Don't lose sight of that! :grin:
 
maybe a little spoiled are we? It is kind of funny though....having to come back down to Earth....when you already had your feet on the moon. I think Haakon's words should be heard here and taken to heart. There may be some compromises...but there are inherent benefits as well to having a camera this inexpensively priced in my hands. It is a level of tools I could not even think about owning even last year....still I can't help but be disappointed right now.
 
Red, any chance you guys can squeeze a little more juice out of that baby and give us 4K compressed onboard at 48fps? PLEASE. :)
 
Question: if 4.5K Redcode RAw cannot be recorded onboard, but 4K Redcode RAW can be, it seems to me that the problem comes from the compressing processor, it is not a writing/speed problem. Otherwise it would be as easy as compressing a bit more the footage so you get the same data rate as at 4K.

But again, if it is a speed processing issue, and 4K 30fps is possible, wouldn´t be possible 24fps at 4.5K?
 
For me the biggest issue is the reduced FOV going to a smaller format size, but I guess that is fixable, just means wider (more expensive) lenses. I had bought in to the S35 format option, it just hadn't dawned on me that it wouldn't be that viable in some permutation or other. Underlines how relevant your table is Haakon.

I think an important aspect to hold on to is that 2K is still in excess of what we are seeing in most theatres today.

Martin
 
Muttondraw said:
For me the biggest issue is the reduced FOV going to a smaller format size, but I guess that is fixable, just means wider (more expensive) lenses. I had bought in to the S35 format option, it just hadn't dawned on me that it wouldn't be that viable in some permutation or other. Underlines how relevant your table is Haakon.

I think an important aspect to hold on to is that 2K is still in excess of what we are seeing in most theatres today.

Martin
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very true
 
macgregor said:
Question: if 4.5K Redcode RAw cannot be recorded onboard, but 4K Redcode RAW can be, it seems to me that the problem comes from the compressing processor, it is not a writing/speed problem. Otherwise it would be as easy as compressing a bit more the footage so you get the same data rate as at 4K.

But again, if it is a speed processing issue, and 4K 30fps is possible, wouldn´t be possible 24fps at 4.5K?
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Or as Stephen W suggested in a previous thread. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=76725&highlight=redcode+4.5k If we could shoot windowed in a 2.40:1 ratio (rather than 1.77:1) but using the full sensor width. So you would only use 4520x1890 pixels. That would bring the data rate down.

Martin
 
Thanks Martin for your confirmation on my FOV question.

4k RAW REDCODE onboard is great, and I do not think there is something to be disapointed of. I mean there is no such difference between 35mm and S35mm.
If 4,5k RAW REDCODE is going to be available onboard it would even be better, but as macgregor has very well resumed it, not sure what is the problem...

About the lens, I have planed to use the REDZoom, and switching between the 4k and 2k windowed, I will have a FOV from around 7 degree to 60 degree, on the same camera, which is kind of cool...
 
The difference between S35 and 35 might be small, but it exists.
Basically because you get wider lenses at the same mm and you can get less DOF.
 
macgregor said:
Wonderfull idea.

Note: isn´t real scope aspect ratio 1:2.39?
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Miguel, I think you're right but it would be interesting any other confirmation(s). This will be a sensitive aspect to take care.

EDIT -- And if the ASC doesn't handle with the pixels by tradition, the digital cinematographer will work with the accurate number and not by estimate approach, genre 1:2.40.
 
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Muttondraw said:
Or as Stephen W suggested in a previous thread. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=76725&highlight=redcode+4.5k If we could shoot windowed in a 2.40:1 ratio (rather than 1.77:1) but using the full sensor width. So you would only use 4520x1890 pixels. That would bring the data rate down.

Martin
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Ah ha. Found this older thread discussing the same possibility. This time with a contribution from Graeme. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=58165 Although they were only talking about windowing the height of a 4K image.
 
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